Gillian Keegan: how’s the ‘hot mic’ thing gone down with you?

[Crinklycut]

For my part, I don’t think it was very ministerial, and I do wonder how No. 10 all talk to each other these days (do they just swear all the time?) BUT she is a bit right, isn’t she?

The DfE have finally acted to make the public aware that their children are not safe in school. That’s more than anyone else in the Conservative party has done since they cancelled ‘Building Schools for the Future’ in 2010 and during their 13 years of government.

So how’s it gone down with you?

Yes i agree, i think a wealth tax and closing the tax gap on earned vs unearned income is the way forward.

I’d also use the falling birth rate that others post about to close RAAC (or other) schools first if possible

Or given pp add other criteria that make it first out of use

BSF was one huge credit card splurge with subsequent financial pain attached. Things do have to be rebuilt but with a bit of realism rather than HP

As for tax and who, I don’t mind but choose one where people are not incredibly mobile - see Nom Dom idea

It’s the only sensible way forward and they’d make billions in tax even by just targeting the top 1%. Suspect there are one or two loopholes that could be closed too.

A decent deal with the EU over the CU and SM would probably grow the economy so any borrowing would be offset too. And the government could choose to borrow over a longer period.

Although Andy borrowing needs to be weighed up by the fact that U.K. borrowing is now more expensive than previously because of our basket case status. Tories can’t fix that. It’ll have to wait until a new government and adults getting into power.

It may be the answer but just keep in mind sometimes tax has a funny way of increasing receipts when it’s lowered

ROI do this with CT and atm in surplus due to multinationals

I don’t know how they convinced the electorate that it would work, but they’ve done incredibly well with lower tax. Usually people here react badly to lower CT etc tax

It also applies to individuals with whom countries try to attract, so you can try and get top payers to pay more but people just as easily move to somewhere more attractive on a tax basis

So tax them but keep them

ROI has complete access to the EUs SM, we don't but even when our CT was low relatively, we didn't see large increases in inward investment.

Companies, when making long term decisions, look at a whole host of things, not just a single tax rate... the education and health of their workforce being examples.

The UK, even with modest tax rises on the wealthy, would still be a low tax economy compared to say France or Germany.

But as pointed out, we need full unfettered access to the SM, its an obvious win for the UK and for the EU, we are a large market for them.

I think we tried the experiment of decreasing taxes while increasing spending last year. People are still paying for it.

That wasn’t mine it was Truss

I would have backed Sunak and said as much at the time

As for Brexit lower tax was way before that.

‘The Irish government agreed a deal with Apple in 1991 to only tax a certain bracket of its earnings, giving it a dramatically lower tax rate than it would have to pay in the US. Apple got its lower tax rate, and Ireland kept Apple in the country.’

Thought there was an agreement on how low CT can go? 15% i believe, that ship may have sailed.

Truss did damage to lower tax idea, I thought it a mistake as everyone just exploded over it

That doesn’t mean ROI hasn’t capitalised on lower taxes including pre Brexit

I think Portugal might have benefited from attractive tax for certain groups too

We can't just keep lowering taxes though, the pay back, if any, is many years away... how do we fund in the meantime?

Borrowing is out of the question, other countries do not have the infrastructure issues we have got.

We need growth & this continued austerity is not working.

I’m all for getting maximum tax receipts, where that falls depends on how competitive we need to be with the rates and how you keep people here to pay it

If the Prime Minister paid the same proportion of his income in tax as I do, how much more would his government have to spend?

You are happy to support a Prime Minister, who broke the law in high office and quite happily sat by whilst his boss lied to parliament about that law breaking.

I am not sure it reflects well on you.

@EasternStandard should some with an income of £1,000,000 a year pay at least the same proportion of that in tax as someone lets say a nurse or teacher on £30,000?

Oh the Coca Cola.. Yes you’re right self flagellation all round don’t worry.

This interesting ROI is joining the OECD agreement. Tax goes up receipts projected to go down

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar, meanwhile, said the increase in tax rate would reduce the State’s revenue by about €2 billion a year based on “existing projections”. However, this was “only an estimate and nobody can know that for sure”. The assumptions surrounding company behaviour “may or may not be correct, and that may well be updated”.

Of course being undercut is fair less likely when everyone else signs up so the damage wouldn’t be as great if that wasn’t in place

What is nice to read is the the word behaviour in that quote. Instead of Labour going on about ‘fully costed’ and Nom Doms just staying even though they’re along the most mobile group in society

I did see the Treasury use a static not dynamic model for working out receipts

Put behaviour in! ROI can obviously see it. We should too.

As for dividend rate for non PAYE many SME get to grow on that rate. Again look at how many people are employed by SMEs if you want that changed

I think the earned vs unearned income tax rates are more to do with investment rather than start up company tax rates...

CGT rate in the UK is low comparatively speaking, 14th lowest in Europe @20% compared to your favourite country ROI at 33% ... & way lower than comparable European economies.

Hardly any countries allow nom dom status in tax, its a peculiar British thing tbh...

ROI isn’t particularly my favourite country, I like here and a few other places, but they have turned it round incredibly well.

They also have cross party support for keeping 12.5% for smaller companies. If it works better why not?

What they do show is that increasing CT from 12.5% to 15% for over 750m is projected to show a decrease

On here people, and Labour, would expect an increase and promise something ‘fully costed’

If ROI are smart enough to work out how to be competitive and reap the benefit fair play to them. Many countries would like that resulting surplus (if not this thread)

Dividend tax is what I’m talking about btw, usually used for ltd companies including SMEs

...Yet ROI has a CGT of 33% yet still attracts investment...... nom dom isn't a thing in most countries, no reason to keep it here is there? or will e.g. Mrs Sunak move to Portugal?

As the ROI minister said, they don't actually know what will happen.. 2.5% seems a very small increase.

Our 19% CT attracted no extra investment & yet we attract BMW with a CT rate of 25% ...

We can devise exemptions for start up's etc as we have done before.

Her name isn’t ‘Mrs Sunak’ but yes there’s plenty of help for those who want favourable tax for those not in the public eye who generally leave before the 15 years is up anyway. There’s speciality tex places happy to advise, if you google firms come up

2.5% seems a very small increase and if you do static calculations you’d expect an increase in receipts, if you take behaviour into account then you won’t just arrive at increase. Hard to project but at least ROI are doing that part

yet we attract BMW yep great news I agree. Hopefully more to come. Looking at it heritage played a role but also some taxpayer money which is a bit like a tax cut

What I think is a good idea is always consider behaviour when increasing tax rates or trying to be competitive

Oh and don’t try to fund massive projects on HP

So look at behaviour for tax / no HP

• to maximise tax receipts and not hike a private mark up on top

Now might be a bit late to start worrying about SMEs. Particularly ones where moving out of the U.K. is an option.

Not sure what you’re referring to here numbers haven’t gone down, except for Covid response which I wasn’t keen on anyway partly due to impact on SMEs

The point was dividend tax is lower than PAYE so more ltd companies are set up and grow and people are employed by them

Yet other higher tax havens do well, France, Nordic countries, Germany even... whilst i agree we need to have a well formulated tax system, i do think there is more to it than simply cutting taxes.

If it were, all countries would do this.... they don't.

Back to the subject, how are we going to afford to rebuild 100s perhaps 1000s of public sector buildings? and still provide courts, prisons, schools etc etc ...

Yes @Alexandra2001 being a tax haven is wearing a bit thin in the RoI too. All sorts of wonderful figures about GDP bandied about. Smoke and mirrors. And carousels.

Meanwhile , back in reality, the first words I invariably hear in Dublin are ' You wouldn't have two euros to spare ?' .

Now I know things are no better in England from very recent experience. But revisiting the tried and failed nostrums of Thatcherism is not going to fix it for you.

May I be so bold as to suggest that the wealthy pay the same proportion of their income in taxes as teachers and nurses?

Actually it wasn’t about ‘cutting taxes’ it was in response to lifting them

And showing increases can lead to reduction in receipts if behaviour is taken into account.