Can anyone explain how primary teachers decide who sits where?

[peachgreen]

DD (5) has just gone back to school (we're in NI). Her whole class has moved up together. She has a wee group of friends – there's four of them – who she was very close with last school year and saw quite a bit in the summer. From observing them at parties, she's probably the quietest in the group and possibly the one that gets a bit "left out" occasionally but nothing that has caused me any concern.

Last year they all sat at separate tables in the classroom and played together at playtime. This year, though, her new teacher has sat her three friends at one table, all together, and her away from them all. She's very upset although I have of course done everything to downplay it and reassured her that she can play with them at playtime, that she'll soon make friends at her new table etc etc. But I'm curious as to what could be the thinking behind the teacher's decision? It seems like most of the children have been sat with one or two of their particular friends, so I don't think it's random.

I really don't want to be That Mum so I have no intentions of saying anything to her class teacher, and in general I very much trust teachers to know what they're doing so I'm sure there's a good reason! But I am puzzled! Any teachers with any insight?

I thought this too.

I have worked as a TA in primary and secondary schools and I think that if the other girls are a bit more outgoing and your dd is sometimes left out, it's likely better for your dd to sit with other people.

My dd doesn't have any of her close friends in her class for good reason. She didn't last year and she won't this year when she goes back as she works a lot better with other children

But I also think it would be fine to mention it to the teacher. Either she / he didn't know or she / he did it for a reason which would be good to know about

Hahaha!
Teachers don't sit children with their friends just because. If a parent asked me to sit their child with their friend without good educational reason - and being with their friend really isnt a good educational reason alone, they’d get me explaining why their child is sat where I’ve placed them.

Could be ability (either same ability or mixing ability).

Could be splitting up ones that don't get on or who will be too chatty. Could be to enable a group of children to access TA support.

Whatever the teacher has chosen it will have taken a lot of consideration and they will no doubt revise it when they get to know the class. If she's really unhappy then have a word. Seating plans don't have a big effect on friendships in my experience.

In my experience: quiet kids are often sat besides kids who are more easily distracted or disruptive. Three of my dd’s infant and primary school teachers told me this was school policy, to help with classroom management. My dd thought she was being punished/singled out to never sit with her friends “no matter how good I am in class mummy”.

I asked several teachers to move her, several times - disruptive is one thing, but some children taunt verbally, talk incessantly, constantly interrupt, steal, “poke” or other low-level destruction and violence eg pouring water on your child’s work, scribbling on your child’s work. It’s very wearying for your child so don’t think you’re “that parent” if you’re advocating for your child - your dc may be so used to the harassment they don’t even realise how worn down by it they are. My dd was made miserable and bored by it all.

If she’s quiet, she may well be sat next to a chatty child. Likelihood is that teacher has very little clue of who is friends with who. Other factors to consider are whether children need to be closer to the front, facing the board/front rather than side on, balance of boys and girls per table, ability, need to be in proximity to a teacher…
My seating plans often change in the first week or so as it depends on dynamics.

Some will be sitting in a particular place due to ability/access requirements such as to sit near the board so they can see or hear better. Some with behaviour/concentration needs may be better in a certain place.

Some will be deliberately kept apart if there have been behaviour or friendship issues in the past.

Probably the different personalities and abilities have been mixed up to create a good balance across the classroom.

I really doubt that she has tried to seat friends together, unless there’s a child struggling with anxiety etc who could really benefit from sitting beside a friend.

Going to be honest, as a teacher I’ve never thought of that one!

I'm a teacher in NI I'd say almost certainly ability with some consideration for behaviour & creating tables that "work" well together. Having taught in NI & England the NI early years curriculum is considerably more formal than the English system at this stage. Have a quick chat with the teacher I'm sure they don't mind & will be able to explain their thinking

Mixed ability and tend to swap tables around every half term so it’s not same children together all year. As the year goes on you can see who works well together and who may distract/ chat hence the swapping around of children every so often. It’s definitely not based on friendships and it might just be the teacher is trying out different combinations especially in September. To be honest unless there is a real problematic issue on who sits next to who I would politely give this am my reason to parents and would not be swapping children around so they could sit next to their best friends.
Ive had this before when parents have somehow concluded their child is in the lower ability table and wanted them moved to the higher ability table. I have no ability sets on tables and and say it based on who works very well together e.g not causing a distraction.

Email the teacher and ask. DD teacher changed their places every week which was excellent as they worked with everyone and they as much healthier.

Wish I knew. Seems in my daughters class the well behaved girls are sat next to the disruptive boys.

Thank you everyone, this has been so helpful. DD’s dad died when she was 2.5 and she has been left with some (understandable!) separation anxiety and abandonment issues so it’s possibly a bigger deal for her/us than it should be. I think I’ll have a chat to her teacher just to make her aware it’s upset her a bit because I know she won’t show it in school. Thank you for reassuring me that I’m not that mum but just advocating for her. It’s so hard to find that line, especially because I am a failed teacher myself (couldn’t hack it!) so I’m very aware of what a tough job it is.

I do remember one conversation with Ds’s teacher about a boy he was sat next to basically my Ds and this boy distracted everyone they sat by so at least they were just distracting each other 😳. My Ds does have adhd .

My DC is of similar age, and at their school there are 5 tables of 6 pupils each and it's based on ability.

Personally I wouldn't speak to the teacher about this now, as I'd want to pick my battles. However, during parent consultation, I'd ask the teacher this very question you have asked on here and then , if it transpires that table allocation doesn't have anything to do with ability, I'd mention to the teacher that dd would prefer to sit with her friends

I don't think dectating to the teacher where your child wants to sit is necessarily "advocating" for your daughter. What if all the children in the class want to sit next to their friends, and thier parents start advocating for them.

Sounds totally bizarre to me that a 5 year-old would have 'a table'. I taught reception last year and apart from when they were sat on the carpet, all of the kids did their learning standing up, sprawled on the floor or sat at any table/activity that they were interested in. That's how learning should be in Reception.

And when I taught Year 5 I let the kids sit where they wanted.

I'm probably not the best teacher to answer your question 😂

My DD isn’t at school yet (next year) but I am perfectly prepared to be “that parent” and give no shits if I’m seen as one.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to make a teacher aware of where a child is upset or to ask questions about decisions made. That’s not to say you can ask for or expect changes, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking why so you understand the rationale.
I’ve asked for similar information whilst at nursery and I don’t see why school should be different.

Education needs parents, pupils and teachers to play their part. Teachers aren’t Gods to be obeyed. They should be respected for their opinions absolutely, but you don’t have to take everything they say and do as gospel either. They are fallible.

My DD has moaned about some things at preschool- they break their large cohort in to smaller groups for activities and DD is often separated from her best friend. It’s to do with focusing on particular milestones, my DD is hopeless with gross motor but literally years ahead on speech/vocab and numeracy. For some activity they find it easiest to split them, which is absolutely fine with me but I wanted to understand why.

DD’s primary is teeny so I’m prepared for all sorts of oddities due to mixed age classes etc but I will still (politely and respectfully) as why. Depending on responses I might challenge something but usually the explanation is enough.

I’m never going to be a doormat though. Mumsnet seems to be full of women who just meekly accept all sorts of shit from others for fear of what “people will think”. Sod that.

Generally the quiet well behaved in assertive kids get sat next to the troublemakers to modify their behaviour

Good luck. I totally agree with you but some teachers really do have a god complex, just be careful you child doesn’t suffer because you dare to question them.

I think I've made it pretty clear I'm not planning on dictating anything! I'm just going to ask (at the upcoming parent/teacher evening) what the rationale was behind it, and explain that DD was upset because her three best friends are all together and she's on her own.

I am a teacher and wouldn't mind at all if a parent asked me about this. I may not have realised the friendship group was strong or the previous teacher may have seen a different dynamic and thought the others were dominating your child so passed this on to the new teacher.

Some teachers seat by attainment so that could be a factor but I like mixed attainment tables so I would be looking for a mix of boys/girls, high/low/mid attainers, louder/quieter personalities. There also might be specific needs such as left-handedness or hearing issues. Of course I only have a limited amount of information at this stage so I usually change table places at least once or twice a term.

Depending on the children I'd generally be looking to avoid groups of friends sitting together, although I try and make sure they've got at least one person to pair with in activities.

The seating plan is an amazing classroom management tool. At the start of term it would be random, or based on what the teacher already knows - so ability, SEN, or information from last year’s teacher. Seating should be tweaked throughout the year to take into consideration kids who work well together, kids who don’t, kids who get easily distracted (you want to keep their line of sight clear as poss), kids who need to be right under teachers nose, kids who might need to widen their friendship group, kids who need TA support. There’s a million reasons for a seating plan. I wouldn’t have minded if a parent asked me why their child was in a certain spot.

If you're going to bring it up, I'd do so with a mention of your DD's loss of her dad. That gives more context to her difficulties, and avoids you coming across as unreasonable.