Are primary schools allotted based on distance from the house?

[estebancolberto]

There are two schools near our house in London. A "good" one that is 0.3 miles from our house and "outstanding" one that is 0.7 miles from our house. Our house is in the catchment area for both. So, will we be able to get a space in the "outstanding" one?

I used to work in LEA admissions, and the ‘catchment’ depends on demand, so if a school is oversubscribed as the ‘good’ school is likely to be, the catchment area will be smaller, and children outside the catchment (even siblings) are offered the nearest alternative school.
It’s worth considering, however, that not all children will be best served by a ‘good’ school. My son was bullied unmercifully in a ’good’ school and was in such a state that I feared for his health. I sent him to the less ’good’ school where he thrived and was able to confidently meet his former bullies when he met them in high school.

@Coco1379 where I worked we didn’t have this problem very often. Most dc get catchment school if they want it. Some very popular schools do restrict catchment but it mostly affects secondaries. At primary it’s mostly ok but the web site reflects all application decisions over several years.

Also birth rates fluctuate. Oversubscribed schools from catchment Dc 10-20 years ago don’t necessarily have the same number of catchment Dc now as many parents haven’t moved! The Dc become teens and the birth rate in a catchment can drop. It always pays to look at previous data.

@TizerorFizz London and some of bordering Home Counties don't have catchments. They use distance.

This is why you find children who live in one borough going to school in another.

The most noticeable issues were caused during the Covid lockdowns when ministers and civil servants were doing things like closing schools in Lewisham but not Greenwich. Then putting Surrey in a lower category than Sutton and Kingston. As they didn't realise not all London Boroughs start with "The London Borough of" and children cross borough and Greater London boundary to go to school.

There are no LA’s who determine catchment as you’ve described. It’s always crows fly.

You need to check whether the two schools admissions are determined by the LA and what the LA policy is. Different areas have different priorities. Some have catchments. Some have nearest school followed by distance. Some have priority catchments. Some use a mixture of all 3.

This is not true.

a) catchments are defined priority admission areas, and Admissions Authorities can set whatever size/shape they wish, as long as it's not gerrymandering. This information (clear map and definitive description) should be published alongside other admissions information, so parents know if they live within the zone or not.

b) some schools do not have catchments at all, and for others living within the catchment is not sufficient (if there are more children living in the catchment than places available) so a tie breaker is used - normally distance. The Admissions Code does not require straight-line distance (which would produce some seriously anomalous results near rivers/motorways) and distance by safe route is a permitted method and is indeed in use. The Admissions Authority should make it clear what method they use.

A) some catchments are defined that way. The point was distance is not calculated based on street. Its crows fly. A street in a priority catchment is a different admissions rule.

B) I know all of this. I live in an area that doesn’t use catchments. Point still stands, when using distance they do crow flies. If you would like to source a local authority that doesn’t calculate distance in that way go for it.

B) I know all of this. I live in an area that doesn’t use catchments. Point still stands, when using distance they do crow flies. If you would like to source a local authority that doesn’t calculate distance in that way go for it.

Just from reading these boards, I'm pretty sure I have seen some places using 'safe walking route' rather than crows fly. But know I can't prove it. @AnneValentine what evidence / experience do you have to back up your assertion?

@prh47bridge - care to comment?

In this very old and quite possibly out of date thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/primary/1454525-School-appeals-shortest-suitable-walking-route a poster talks about in their area it being done by safest walking route.

This link: https://admissionsday.co.uk/blog/how-do-school-catchment-areas-work from 2019 says about shortest walking routes:

When and where is it used? There aren’t many local authorities that use them, but examples include Richmond-upon-Thames and Newham in London and Medway council in the South East.
Some individual schools such as Julian’s Primary in Lambeth also use walking distance.

What evidence do I have that schools who don’t use catchments use straight line distance?

Look at hertfordshire, Wandsworth, Kent.

Safe walking distance is for transport entitlement. It’s nothing to do with admissions.

That’s catchment, which as I’ve already said is different from the distance admission rule.

Catchment is when schools have specific catchment areas. Some local authorities use these. Others do not, and will have a specific admission rule for distance. That is based on straight line.

Medway https://www.medway.gov.uk/downloads/file/6266/primary_admissions_scheme_2023_to_2024_consultation

Tie breaker is shortest safe walking route.

Almost every single admissions has distance as a tie breaker within admissions categories whether or not they have pre-defined priority admissions areas.
Some of these use safest walking route.

Lots of London boroughs publish furthest distance for admission from previous years. This is helpful to get a sense of your chances (it changes year on year but certainly round my way, it's reasonably stable). You get six requests so always list your closest school somewhere there. Even if you don't like it, being given a school you don't like that's on your doorstep is much better than getting one you don't like that's halfway across the borough.

Interesting thanks.

They don’t use safest walking distance though for tie breaker. It says they use a hat basically.

Safest walking route doesn’t work as a tie breaker, because no two people can have the exact same walking route unless they’re twins which isn’t determined using tie breaker.

There are still a number of schools that use safe walking distance as the measurement for distance in admissions rather than straight line. It's the way, for example, used for the London Borough of Redbridge community schools. It's not the common measurement any more, but it's still not that uncommon.

www.redbridge.gov.uk/media/11398/admission-arrangements-for-2024-2025-v2.pdf

@AnneValentine I'm afraid you are wrong and @meditrina is correct.

B) I know all of this. I live in an area that doesn’t use catchments. Point still stands, when using distance they do crow flies. If you would like to source a local authority that doesn’t calculate distance in that way go for it.

Sunderland, Darlington and Tower Hamlets for starters. That is not an exhaustive list of LAs that use shortest walking route as the tie breaker - just three off the top of my head. There are also many schools that set their own oversubscription criteria that choose to use shortest walking route as the tie breaker.

Shortest walking route is susceptible to challenge by parents who may know of a footpath that the admission authority hasn't taken into account. Many admission authorities avoid it for that reason. However, it makes sense to use it if there is a major obstacle such as a river, which can mean that the straight-line distance is only a few hundred yards, but the shortest walking route is several miles.

That’s not right at all. It’s often closest walking route.

Medway only use a lottery if 2 or more children have exactly the same priority for the last place. This would be unlikely, although possible in a school with a lot of siblings, for example.

Every child considered under criteria 8, distance, would be ranked according to the their distance from the school via roads and paths, not straight line. That is the distance criteria used for all applicants who don't fall into the other previous criteria.

Read the full thread.

It’s worth knowing that applications to London schools have been falling in recent years, and it maybe easier to get a place than previously. I’m in London and two local schools (secondary) in my borough have actually closed.

Read my post.

I have. And if you had read the comments above you would see someone else has already shared information that showed LA’s using this method, and I thanked them.

So your additional post wasn’t necessary. And a new randomer coming along really wasn’t.

Read the thread.

At @AnneValentine . You need to be aware that @prh47bridge is definitely not a 'randomer'. I tagged them in because they are extremely experienced on admissions matters and incredibly helpful to people on appeals. Basically along with a couple of others they are the 'admissions experts' on MN.

It is helpful to most of us to see their view on such conversations.

Depends on the school.

Academies and church schools can use different criteria to LA run schools.

So I know people who live near the back entrance of church school but weren't near enough under the distance criteria.

One of the church schools near me discounts that you can walk through a park to get to their main entrance. This is to ensure that any children who live in the nearest council estate take priority over those who live in the richer houses.