Is it worth to take risk and move happy child to more academic selective school?

[mayjune85]

Hi there,

Firstly we moved to UK/London 1 and half years ago. So we are still learning the UK education system.. My daughters are currently girls only school (GDST school) in South London. They are both in Junior school but my older one is currently year 4. We are so happy in our school and girls also receiving great feedbacks/reports from their teacher. In our school all kids are so settled and seemed happy but still majority of the parents will try 11+ for more academic schools like Putney- Wimbledon, High School, JAGS, City etc.. I really do not understand the reason because the kids will need to travel 1 hour twice a day if they get a offer and I checked those schools fees are more expensive than ours. When we moved here I wanted all-through school to avoid 11+ stress for my girls but at the moment all of the parents talks about which app, book, website or/and tutor they prefer for the 11+ assessments etc. Am I missing something? Is it really beneficial to be in more academic school for children here? For little bit better facilities or academic environment. Should I need to take risk and move happy and settled child? Also, I always wanted my daughters to be in same school, really want them to have memories together - my older daughter is so bright, self motivated kid so I believe she can have a offer from those schools but I am not sure if my younger one will be able to have an offer in the same school. Its sounds so stressful and nonsense to me but in the same time if my daughter will have better education of-course its worth to try.
Please share your ideas on this- especially those parents who changed schools only for academic reasons. I really want to know if it is beneficial.

Thank you

NLCS junior has a significant of cohort "traded up" to SPGS this year (second to Bute house?) . Of course none of them are unprepared and just give it a go.

In the pretest, my DD was in the same room of some of these girls, they are well prepared!

Following: my children are extremely happy where they are but the school is small and doesnt seem as academic as others in North London (nlcs, hb, habs, South hampstead). I've been wondering about moving them too.

to me an hour (assuming your current travel time is far less than this) can only be justified for something really exceptional, like full bursary or scholarship exceptional. nowhere near worth it to switch between two very similar schools that are a few places apart in some league table or other.

Definitely stick where you are.

First all GDST schools are selective - there is not enough potential gain to justify the stress of 11+ and the impact on your DD.

Second - I was a parent who became very stressed about the 11+ and my kids being able to get into the "best" schools. As they now head to university it has become clear that all the kids at the range of schools available to us locally are heading to the same range of universities. Secondary school has not made the difference I assumed it would.

For "more academic" I read "more prestigious" to be honest. There's a certain cohort of people who set great store by such things but it definitely doesn't mean the teaching is better or worse. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that when the school becomes popular and is oversubscribed they can cherry pick the most able pupils and that is what is reflected in exam results. Cue an upwards trajectory in terms of reputation and desirability. "Getting in" begins to take on significance as it sets your child apart as being somehow elite.

The best thing to do is to go and look at the different schools and decide for yourself what the staff are like, what the head is like, what the atmosphere & ethos is like and what the strengths / weaknesses are and then decide which is best fit for your DC/ your family / location etc etc. The worst thing to do is get caught up in the hype.

FWIW 2 of my DC attend /attended probably the most academic // prestigious school in our area with a great national reputation / profile. but it's not right at all for 3rd DC who will go to a school 45 mins away but where we hope he will thrive. I don't really like what has happened at the other DCs school in some respects as it has risen up the league tables and become ever more popular and aspirational. It's not why I sent them there. But success comes at a price sometimes. It's still an exceptional school, for the right pupils. But in order not to feel like a total dunce you do need to be somewhat exceptional at something!! Being surrounded only by high achievers is quite stressful! It's not really even that the school piles on the pressure, it's more that the cohort is just extremely able.

In other words there are many factors to consider and you just need to keep your head and try not to worry what "everyone else" is doing.

"The best thing to do is to go and look at the different schools and decide for yourself what the staff are like, what the head is like, what the atmosphere & ethos is like and what the strengths / weaknesses are and then decide which is best fit for your DC/ your family / location etc etc. The worst thing to do is get caught up in the hype. "

Agree, and probably find out what the parents like too, the indulgence of competitive parenting is one feature of these sxhools, which does shape the culture/value of the environment. You need to find out if you fit into that too.

Which GDST school is this?-They are all selective and academic enought for girls to thrive.

One observation I have regarding this is the following, borne from experience.

The GCSE/ A level grades and rankings are one thing, how they are distributed is another. Look closely and the London GDST's are weighted heavily towards arts/ social sciences vs the top schools. Not necessarily on the number of entries but the grades achieved.

I.e. for 2023 on a similar entry percentage by school A*/A in Maths you might be looking at somewhere in the 50%'s for the GDST and say 80%'s for one of the top Hammersmith schools. A big gap.

Despite the GDST narrative about encouraging girls into STEM, my experience is if your DD is strong at Maths and Science they don't appear to value this. This can leave you in a tricky situation, you can either leave them in the school and accept they will ultimately fall back vs their starting potential or move them.

Arts/ social sciences are the real GDST "bread and butter" subjects, this is where they excel.

@Jonny234 This is interesting. Do you think it is only because of the emphasis in the teaching at GDST schools, or is it also to do with the way they test for admissions? My sense is that getting into say, SPGS or City girls, is harder than any GDST school, and I am wondering whether these schools are screening for a higher aptitude in maths than GDST schools. The drop you mention in A level Maths (from 80% to 50%) seems too big to be explained only in terms of what GDST schools value once you are there.

This is an old thread and I'm sure OP has moved on, but I will point out that the character of a senior school in an all-through may be rather different to that of the junior school, particularly if either a lot of girls leave ("majority of the parents will try 11+") and/or they take a large contingent of new girls at 11+.

@Jonny234 - i think it depends a lot on the GDST school - eg I just looked at Wimbledon's 2024 results and 38/43 got A star and A at Maths A level, better in fact than G&L- although some there will take IB.
But indeed this is an old thread so who knows what the OP decided on.

Hatcher - It's a difficult one to fathom and obtain an exact answer for, god knows what goes on behind closed doors. I will say it's easier to get A in Psychology than it is in say Further Maths. So perhaps competing just on the A/A marks makes them move this way?

I think any school who claims to value STEM, or positioning themselves to value anything else for that matter needs to be careful. If they claim to value something, and are then seen to not follow through on it where does that leave them? Imho it damages the brand, and it damages the relationship with parents with kids of that skillset. Then once this occurs it probably snowballs because the reputation is set and makes it even harder for the school.

Nobody is gonna pay £25k a year for a school which is a bad fit for their child.

I don’t know anything about private schools. But I would say if you have two happy girls in a school that has good results then you’re onto a winner. I wouldn’t change a thing

As you allude to IB perhaps clouds the actuals vs what I mentioned.

I looked a while back at 2023. PHS was 54% A*/A. Latymer 83%, G&L 89%.

I've not done a 2024 comparison.

Very much related to this, though focusing on participation/emphasis/interest in STEM at A Levels rather than exam results:

• Bromley High School: 176 entries, 20 Maths, 5 FM
• Croydon High School: 102 entries, 6 Maths, 0 FM
• Streatham & Clapham High School: 169 entries, 14 Maths, 1 FM
• Sydenham High School: 138 entries, 13 Maths, 1 FM

• SPGS: 378 entries, 87 Maths, 32 FM

Not many seemed to have taken HL maths so probably not.

But as a parent of 2 DCs ( one at a GDST and one at a 'Hammersmith school') who are most definitely more interested in Humanities rather than STEM I do get a bit fed up with the view that it's only STEM results that matter. It's arguably harder to get higher grades in the more subjective subjects and we do need DCs in the world studying something other than Maths and Physics! But I am going slightly off track..

When I analysed a while back I looked at PHS/ Latymer/ G&L for maths, further maths, chem, biology, physics for 2023.

General observations and overall.

In terms of % of students taking each subject of total cohort not a massive difference apart from Physics where Latymer has about twice as many as the other 2, at 10%. I suppose that's due to boys.

PHS A*/A average for the 5 subjects 58%.

Latymer ave 74% A*/A.

G&L ave 75% A*/A.

By subject:

It's actually neck and neck amongst all 3 for biology, PHS is a close 3rd.

G&L top in maths/ further maths average 87%.

Latymer top in Chem/ Physics average 76%

I don't disagree with this by any means, the fact some subjects are deemed "harder" does not diminish other subjects, they are all equally valid in my eyes.

It's just more a case of what type of child have you and picking what you believe is the correct school to trust to fully develop their potential.

Talking about A levels, lot of GDST school girls will switch sixth form, some go to coed schools or sixth form with more choices and teachers of STEM subjects. Not too late if you want to change at 16+

Normally I'd agree with this for most kids but I'm not seeing it as 2 separate distinct thing..... GCSE's/ A Level, but more of a continuation.

My DD is very strong across the board, no weaknesses, probably strong enough to take A levels in almost anything, but this strength has a relative imbalance. She's been taking CAT4's throughout junior school, the NVR/ VR/ Quant/ Spatial battery in the autumn term, and PTE/ PTM in summer term. The teachers throughout have said there is no real difference between these scores and how she's performing in class.

STEM ability and future potential is probably best evaluated through Quant, Spatial and PTM. In the yrs 4, 5, 6 she's taken these 9 exams, 3 times 3, of a possible maximum of 141 times 9 = 1269 marks she has scored 1267. Dropped 2 marks.

So she's clearly immensely strong in STEM and this is the way she'll most likely move in the future. That said I haven't got any assurances whatsoever in her current school they acknowledge or will cater for her talent, no mentoring, and like I say to them if they can't recognise she has this talent then we as parents can't trust the school to develop it.

So we're stuck in a situation where we could be passive, hope she doesn't fall back into the average but if she does I can't go back to the school and say I was promised X and Y because I wasn't. Or I can be proactive and find her a school which recognises this talent and gives me assurances her level will be maintained and developed, perhaps at an accelerated pace.

Generally in light of what I say above I'm not really expecting any massive special attention, far from it, I just want comfort she's in the right school with the ability to spot her talent and means to develop it.

Now when it comes to GCSE's I could take the view she gets there, hopefully gets A/A*'s in STEM and then we take it from there. But in this case if if did occur how much ground has she lost in the meantime from 11-16? and will a lack of rigour and dedicated support throughout this period mean A levels are more of a leap?

The decision we've made is the proactive one. She has to move.