Teacher 'suggesting' DD drops an instrument to learn more maths

[gastonlovescheese]

Hi All,

DD is in yr 5 of a reasonably strict all girls school. She's creative, free spirited and has had trouble fully focussing in lessons. Last year she got a little acoustic guitar for her birthday and has so far excelled, when she is playing she is hyper focussed and has blown me away with how far she's come so quickly.
The school has really great club and musical options - she has one lesson a week of each: clarinet, guitar and now piano. Her teacher approached her piano teacher recently requesting that her lesson be at lunchtime as it's encroaching on her learning time. Today I received an email suggesting DD drops either clarinet or guitar as she believes her maths is being affected. These are 20 mins lessons and as the times change each week the lessons they affect differ.

Now AITA or is this teacher signing up to the Rishi Sunak line of thinking that maths is the be all and end all of education? Why make her stop something she is excelling in to ensure she doesn't miss any maths? What would you do if you were me? Any advice welcome!
Thanks

identifying detail edited out by MNHQ, at OP's request.

1. You have used her name. If you report your post MN will redact it for you.
2. If she is randomly missing quite a few maths lessons for instruments it is going to be disruptive to her learning which could have a big ongoing impact. That is the problem with music lessons in school. Could she not do one of the instruments out of school instead?

I thought you were going to say she was in Year 11 (when maybe the teacher might have a point)!

Send the teacher this link?? https://www.pianistmagazine.com/news/new-research-shows-music-students-perform-better-in-school-than-non-musical-students/

Well maths is more important, it’s just factual. I think you are jumping ahead going on about politics anyway, the maths teacher has done the right thing and let you no that her maths is struggling now. I’d work with the maths teacher about what you can do to help with maths, doesn’t mean you have to necessarily stop instruments, but calm down and open up discussion.

Ultimately if your DD is missing the input time of a maths lesson, or the practice time, unless she is bright & quick at maths, she will lose understanding. Maths is a cumulative subject, you need firm foundations to proceed.

Missing over an hour of lessons at week when she is already struggling to focus in class is a lot really. The suggestion of moving one to lunchtime makes sense surely?

Maths skills are built up based on previous knowledge - it's not like geography or history where if you miss a lesson you can still understand next week's lesson. If there are holes in her maths knowledge it will impact later learning. If the school is running the music lessons, they should avoid clashing them with core subjects like maths, english and science.

'Had trouble focusing' and 'free spirited' are well known euphemisms in education 😅.

Maths is a core subject, music isn't.

As PPs said she needs to move a music lesson to lunch time so she doesn't miss out on Maths learning.

why is she taking time out of normal lessons for music lessons?

I actually saw this first hand, child gets about 5 minutes of maths, leaves to do a music lesson, also year 5, returns and then I have to catch them up on what they have missed in the teaching part and get them to do the work they would have been doing whilst they were strumming away on a guitar. All this whilst the lesson is continuing at the more advanced bit they would have got to had they had been in class. I personally don't think that music lessons should take place when core subject teaching is taking place ie mornings. I am a volunteer, that means no TA in that class on that day and the teacher is still teaching. Very hard to dedicate time to catching them up.

As for maths being important, SATs are maths and English, GCSE requirements are maths and English language. So yes maths is important. If they miss the building blocks of maths in primary it can have a massive effect on their ability at secondary.

Having a music degree, a music teacher husband and to children who are pursuing music/performing at degree level I am a big advocate, especially for those like my autistic ds, who are not academic.

But 3 different instruments all in school time are a lot. Both of mine had up to two instrumental/LAMDA lessons in school but I arranged any others privately out of school time. Some children find it easy to catch up on missed lessons, for others it is a lot more challanging.

Three instruments in school is going to be a problem if she sticks at them . She should do at least one outside school. If she is serious about music, she will probably want longer than 20min lessons anyway.

If i were you I would organise lessons outside of school hours. It doesn't have to be an either/ or scenario.

You need to move to lessons outside school. Her maths is being disrupted and there comes a point where she will not easily ‘catch up’ what she has missed. Missing an hour of lessons a week is really disruptive, and the variable timing means that there’s disruption across the board.

The teacher is trying to prevent learning loss. Work with her.

It is important dd keeps up in maths. It is also important she should be encouraged in music if excelling/enjoying it.

I would offer to do extra maths homework if there is an issue with her maths, but ideally not stop the music lessons.

(I doubt Rishi Sunak has anything to do with it. Likely teacher believes maths more important for a long time.)

Nothing is more important than music 😎

Music is incredibly helpful and should be strongly supported and encouraged. So should maths. You need to find a way to ensure she does both to their fullest, you can’t compromise her maths for music.

All these things are true: Three instruments is a lot. Maths isn't as important as all that. Music helps the brain to develop, especially in areas involved in maths.

It's normal for schools to say you can only learn one instrument in school. Just sort out the lessons for the other two outside of school hours.

This. 3 different instruments during class time is unheard of.

Lovely that she is doing well with music but maths is a fundamental core subject. Getting behind in primary school is not good.

It is quite standard in state primary schools (and state secondary) to come out of normal lessons for instrument tuition.

Moving the lessons around means the same subject isn't hit consistently, However with 3 separate lessons they aren't going to avoid hitting maths quite a lot which is the issue.

It isn't possible to never hit maths as a lot of primary schools do their maths & English in the morning and the peripatetic teachers come for a whole day.

If she is doing 3 lessons a week in school time, maths is often a daily lesson, so could in theory miss 3 part lessons a week of maths. Unusual a school would agree to 3 in a week during core curriculum time.

She can’t fall behind in a core subject to facilitate 3 instruments. You need to work with school on a plan that ensures that she doesn’t miss math and help support her at home to close the gaps that have already emerged

@gastonlovescheese
If this is a strictish girls’ school, is it private? I’m wondering why they allowed 3 music lessons each week? Seems a lot. I would discuss this with the teacher and look to see what she can learn outside school. The school knew the lessons would clash so it’s not your fault. However talk to the teacher about how her maths lessons are impacted. Is it only maths?

I agree with most others. Three instrumental lessons is a lot to fit into the school week. Music and maths are both important but there is no need to sacrifice one for the other.

Keep up the lessons, but move at least one to after school or weekends. Personally I'd probably move all of them.