Homework, three strikes and out

[happymerryberries]

I have just seen a report on a school who have instituted a three strikes and exclusion (1 or 2 days)for missed H/W. The scheme has been running for three weeks. In the first week 28 were excluded, in the second 7 and third none. the missed H/W went from over 300 in the first week to 1 on the third week.

Discuss!

Dons asbestos underpants and goes to school

OK... (Dons flameproof clothing and enters the fray) Anything that makes children see the worth of homework is OK by me. I work in a FE college and I am constantly frustrated by the attitude of students to homework. Given the amount of teaching time we have, homework is NOT optional, it is utterly necessary in order to prepare the students for their exams.

Many of the courses we teach are internally assessed. Their grade comes from coursework only. The assignments are written, on the advice of the exam board, to take longer than the time avaliable in class sessions. But these are students who never have been made to do homework. They treat it as entirely optional and in many cases as an infringement on their human rights I have one student whose favourite phrase is "I didn't come to college to..(attend classes/treat teachers with respect/do any work in class etc).." The end result of this is, of course, that the students fail their course.

The point is, they have never been forced to do homework. They don't understand the concept of learning outside the classroom. It does not matter how often or how loud we bang on about working outside the class, they never, ever take it seriously. The difference cis really noticeable when you get a student who has gone to a school with a firm homework policy. Bless their dear little souls, often they are not the brightest of students, but they inevitably pass.

In one of our maths clases they have a poster about homework and how much it equaes too. Think it is something to do with doing one piece of homework a week during secondary school (5 years) equals one full year of class time. So if a child isn't doing his/her homework they are missing out on a HUGE amount of work, and practise.

For languages A1 and A2, we tell the students that for every hour of teacher time, they are required to put in an hour of self-study, ie homework, learning vocab, research, coursework etc. You can really tell who does this and who deosn't, whatever they write in their self study logs. And at A-level these are motivated kids who've chosen this subject out of a dozen options and they still don't understand why they have to learn vocab out of class.

I'm never sure about these kinds of blanket "one size fits all" type edicts, I have to say. It's one of those situations where there is an incredibly difficult balance to strike between getting a culture of recognising the importance of something, homework in this case, but also recognising that there can be legitimate circumstances which should earn individuals a reprieve from punishment on occasion.

I was sacked from my paper round for failing to turn up one morning, under a similar tough policy that was designed to get the group of paper round kids to take their jobs seriously, after a spate of non-attending by some. As it happened I had rarely missed a day previously and, indeed, had frequently done up to 3 extra rounds of a Sunday morning, covering for serial non-attenders in order to help the shop out. I did not turn up that morning because my mother had died the day before but I was, nonetheless, sacked. Thirteen years later this injustice still makes me angry.

I've recently completed a very small study on children looked after by the Local Authority for college and one problem some kids cited was the grief they got from schools for minor infringements of rules around uniform and homework when things like a sudden change of foster placement had prevented their compliance. Often they were unable to explain their predicament to teachers as only one or two senior staff knew that they were in care. It was really not what they needed, frankly. I imagine children with special needs might face different but just as real problems with this type of rule in some circumstances, as might any child going through temporary or longer-term difficult times. So, while I genuinely applaud schools' efforts to place a strong value on homework and send out clear messages about what they expect, I do think these types of universally applicable zero tolerance approaches can be rather unfair to individuals insofar as they may fail to take account of very real mitigating circumstances.

I agree with what everyone says about establishing the importance of homework as a means of developing the capability of independent study, and stressing that missing homework is the equivalent of missing a lesson, but also of course PRPPScum is right - a blanket policy that takes no notice of individual circumstances is just plain wrong. Even as adults, we get compassionate leave from work when appropriate - I can't see why children get less humane treatment. A well-run school should have some kind of communication system whereby a teacher doesn't penalise a child for circumstances beyond their control without having to be party to confidential information about them.

But in the school we were talking about there were over 300 missing bit of homework in the first week. I have classes where up to half of the kids will fail to do their homework. In the vast majority of cases tere is absolutly no good reason for this at all. I will always listen to a sensible reason, and I am sure that the school we are discussing would too.

Some kids find it impossible to comprehend that homework is essential and that , yes, if you want to do well in exams etc you have to revise isn your own time. Some honestly seem to think that is the teachers job to learn it for them!

just skimmed this thread. Agree on the importance of homework if talking about secondary school. I can see the advantage of getting tough about it with clear rules and consequences. Not sure about the exclusion threat as the end result is still no homework, isn't it? or do they do the homework while they are excluded - probably not I imagine.

I can see what blu and scummy mean about blanket rules. I think if you are going to impose clear, strict homework rules I think there should still be a get out clause to take account of individual circumstances. If children don't do their homework, I think they should get homework detention in school time first so they have a proper chance to do it, if they lack the that chance at home.

This school already runs an after school homework club Tigermoth. It had also set up a number of support schemes to help kids to do their homework. This policy was brought in because there were a hard core of kids who had no intention of doing their hw for the simplest of reasons, they didn't want to.

Throwing in a question, speaking from a position of ignorance, but you think there was anything wrong with the homework clubs or school support in general? Were some students not taking up these options for good reasons? are homework clubs generally popular?

Tigermoth, to be brutal there are some kids who don't want to do work. Any work, of any type , shape or form. No matter how much the work is differentiated, dressed up, funned up of simplified. You can give a child of average inteligence a work sheet containing ten sentences with ten gaps to fill in, give them the words and they will not do it!

And before you post, you can give them a 'designg a fact sheet', write 10 sentences using key words, invent an animal adapted to the cold, draw a cartoon strip, make a word search, draw a picture, anything and they will fail to do it! They will refuse to do any homework that involves them doing anything other than smoking, drinking or skiving!

Be fair, the school was proving the kids with an environemnt, with facilities, supported by teaching staff, where they could do their work. What more could they do for them, except do the flipping work???

These were secondary kids. Some of them will shorly be joining the work forse. Don't you think it is about time they realised that all of life isn't fun, some of it involves hard work?

i think it's great that the school is doing something to empower the teachers. If you've got a class where 50% don't do the work, you're going to be spending an unbelievable amount of time chasing up/documenting/listening to twddle' (excuses) giving detentions, etc etc. It must be so frustrating. like trying to sweep the path during a blizzard.

At least this way the kids are jolted into action & start to take it seriously. I don't thnk it's trivial (repeatedly missing homework) it's about learning (the lesson & self-discipline), respect, responsibility etc etc etc. Too much treading lightly round the little blighters these days imo

I'm sure you're right happymerryberries. I am sure some kids just won't do the work however it is presented to them. Do you think the school in question gave them one last chance after those three strikes - ie homework club or exclusion? That's what I was getting at - a final get out clause. And it shocks me to think a school could have 300 pupils who never do homework, refuse all support - so not a tiny minority. Still there you go, I have no recent experience of secondary schools.

I must admit I am dreading the homework next year. I must spend more time with my 5 year old helping him with reading and maths. As I don't get back from work till about 6.00 most nights, I will not have time to get very involved with my oldest son's homework. Whereas now he shows me what he's done and we talk about it, next year, some nights I won't even have time for a cursory glance. I understand he will get about an hour and a half homework a night. At the moment he gets about an hour a week. If he chooses not to do it all, or can't understand it it, next year it will be much harder for me to keep on top of it.

As I understand it, most secondary schools in our area give about an hour and a half of homework a night. To me that sounds an awful lot for an 11 year old straight from primary school. I certainly didn't get that much when I was that age. If I, as an adult, had to take home and hour and a half of work every day, even given the fact I finished 'work' at 3.30, I'd still be hard pressed to do it each evening. It would require a lot of self discipline for me to sit down each night and do it.

Throwing in another question, do you think the persistant homework avoiders would be more willing and able to do homework if they had less of it?

agree with tigermoth- 1 1/2 hours homework is a lot

to answer this tiger-

'Throwing in another question, do you think the persistant homework avoiders would be more willing and able to do homework if they had less of it?'

no. some kids wouldn't do homework no matter what it was- from my experience anyway

1 and half hours for a Y7 pupil seems a lot. Out Y7s get around 1 hour's homework a night, sometimes less. Never more.

The majority of my Y9 class do no homework if I set it. It doesn't matter what the homework is. I have stopped setting homeowkr for them for the time being (too many other problems with this class to add this to list) as I couldn't deal with the chasing of it so often. And often the homework is to be used in the lesson - so when so many don't do it it renders my lesson plan worthless.

Not doing homework is a big issue in our school for many kids, and it is not supported by parents - therefore the school has limited powers to solve it as the current system stands.

Some of these kids, especially when at GCSE level, really need a shock to mkake them work. For some kids, school is a social life. They come to meet and chat to mates, and to see their boy/girl friend. Lessons are an inconvenience for them and get in the way of their socialising. These kids need to realise that they can't do this - in a year or so they will be part of the work force. With attitudes like they have right now, who'd employ them? They have to learn somehow!

To be blunt (again) these kids were told what the new sceme would be. the homework club was available, as it had been before. Why should they be given yet another chance?

The 300 missing homeworks were individual bits of homework, rather than 300 kids. They excluded 23 children in the first week, 8 in the second and none in the third week. Call me cynical, but those statistic would lead me to think that these were kids would wouldn't do their homework rather than kids who couldn't do their homework.

And I repeat, it doesn't matter what you give them, or how much you give them, some kids don't do any homework.

And the issue with the homework is that it is the kids homework. yes parents should check that they are doing it, but that doesn't take long. If they fail to do it, they need to take the consequences. It is called taking control of their learning, a thing that we all need to learn.

I am fed up to the back teeth of kids, who have been given a week to do their homework who come to me on the day it is due in (and this includes sixth formers ffs!) saying, 'I couldn't do it, I didn't know what I was to do '. This is sometimes fill in a w/s! When I ask them why they didn't come to me and ask for help they look incredulous, what do somethign?

I think this 3 strikes thing is great. It obviously works already. We excluded a boy acoupls of weeks ago, and he is already starting to get back to his old habits. And that's in a primary school so exclusion took some doing. If the children know where they stand with rules I think its much easier to enforce them.

i think its a good idea,but only if the child is then made to stay at home and do the work,unfortunatly i know too many parents who would "say off school well go out and dont bother me"!the punishment must continue from home