How much did your prep school help you with secondary applications

[rosieroseflower]

Just that really. Wondering if the school my dc attend is doing what it should as I feel a bit lost with the whole process so far.

It depends on whether they are focussed on 11+ or 13+. IME advice started late year 4 on schools which would be good to view academically and as a good fit for the child. CAT scores and PIPs were used to benchmark. This was reviewed in year 5/6/7. Preparation for entrance exams was less for 11+ for ours as they ran year 7/8 to CE although the emphasis has since changed with more local schools intaking at 11 or pretesting for deferred 13+ entry, and dropping CE/CAS.

Is it a school that goes to 11 or 13? My dcs schools were geared towards 13plus CE and Scholarship entrance, so they would do annual CAD tests since nursery and then age 9 talk to the parents about suitable schools and whether to take CE or sit scholarships. They would then inform parents about any pre-test requirements and house them, and dcs thought capable of scholarships were placed in a separate class (school 1), or had extra lessons timetabled (school 2). There were regular workshops for those building art scholarship portfolios on weekends, and musical director would meet with parents from quite an early age to ensure especially talented dc were on track for music scholarships (the school regularly offered aural and music theory classes on top of weekly lessons and orchestra/band). Parents had to do the actual applications themselves, of course, but school would provide reports etc, and ensure they'd cover the curriculum for CE and the scholarship exams at the main local public schools (Windsor, Eton, Radley, Harrow) in time for the exams (no point finishing the curriculum by end of academic year, what many schools do, especially for 11plus). We then moved to a school with an attached juniour school, where moving into senior school was almost automatic. The top set got extra scholarship preparation, but there was no help at all with applications to other senior schools, no information about pretests/CE etc. The aim of 99% of parents was to get their dc into the attached senior school, though, so the school was more a private junior department rather than a 'prep' school (as in preparing for CE/secondary admission to other leading schools).

Winchester, not Windsor. Not that that matters.

I'm feeling out of my depth working out how to apply to schools and how to choose one. I will contact our school but do the schools proactively help or do you have to go to to them. I have a dc currently in year 5 and heard nothing so far but realising very late that there seem to be exams sat in year 6 for a number of schools even when applying for 13+ entry, I've also noticed all the open days for schools seem to be full too so am feeling panic start to set in.

My dc is unlikely to be applying for scholarships. The school goes to 13 and heavily geared towards dc staying to the end of prep.

Is this why I haven't heard anything?
They do sit cat tests every year. Do I need to use these for anything?! I have no idea and am quite disappointed in the school so far but trying to gauge what is the norm and if my expectations are perhaps unfair.

Our youngest is finishing school this year so not recent info;
DS's school recommended meeting with the head in year 5 to discuss schools for 13+. DH didn't think that meeting was all that important so left it to me, which turned out not to be ideal when we were recommended to look at public boarding schools; absolutely you need to start that process in year 5. Our main day school destinations did entrance tests in year 6 and year 7, and they were well prepared for those.

DD's prep helped a bit, certainly had her doing extra work for scholarship prep, but we could have done with a lot more guidance earlier on schools to look at seriously.

Oh, for DS they only had a scholarship class in year 8. We did start asking about it in year 7 (useful when we needed to agree with the French teacher that his subject could become an issue!)

rosieroseflower I am currently going through this.. DS1 in year 8 and DS2 in year 5.
When we joined the prep school (which goes to year 8) DS1 was already in Year 6. I engaged with the head teacher re potential secondary schools and they were pretty helpful on this to be fair.
They seem to be phasing out common entrance. Girls schools and more competitive schools test in year 5.
Our prep has (IME) not been that useful at prepping for the scholarship exams and I am pretty disappointed.

My children's prep school enjoyed close relations with 2 or 3 senior schools which they fed into. There was preparation for entrance exams in the first term of Year 6. Most important and helpful were the mock interviews. Nothing happened in Year 5 though some parents made visits to check out senior schools in the summer term.

@Shampern yes our school feeds mainly into boarding schools. Which is fine except I don't know what I'm doing and when I've gone to book open days the schools seem to be full for open days.

@MrPickles73 which schools do exams in year 5? I didn't even know that existed!

Is this for entry in year7? It is my dd I am trying to sort what on earth I'm doing. I am fine for her to stay to end of prep with 13+ entry but didn't realise exams were often in year 6 even for this entry point. I thought they would sit the exams later.

rosieroseflower apologies I meant test in Year 6. We know children who are Year 6 and have already sat the exams for Cheltenham College, Winchester and I think Marlborough. But all schools are different; others : Shrewsbury, Malvern and Bromsgrove for example don't do the exams til Year 8...

I’d expect the school to offer a standard advice service and that you wouldn’t have to seek it out.

In my experience, Yr4 is very light touch and just to help people start thinking about it. It’s Yr5 when you’d expect 1-2-1 meetings and advice about specific schools. You’d also expect the school to be offering some general events that all parents of kids above a certain age would be invited to - local Headteachers talking, general info about applying etc. I’d expect what’s available and the usual timelines to be available easily, for example on the website. It’s the kind of thing prospective parents want to know about.

That said, parents need to be pro-active too. It’s not hard to look online at the websites if schools you might be interested in and see when they have open days and the timeline for applications. What the Prep school can provide is specific advice about where your child sits academically and what might be a good choice/aspirational choice etc, as well as what might suit their personality. They should provide some support with entrance exam Prep, but you’d be surprised how many parents still have tutors on top. Lots of the day schools in particular have a significant state school intake too - it’s perfectly possible without a Prep education or the support of the Prep school. But giving the fact they are ‘Prep’ schools, you’d expect them to be prepping!

At my DC's school the headmaster offers a 1-1 discussion with Year 5 parents about which schools they are considering. There's also a Year 5 parents presentation. Most DC stay to end of Year 8 and most go to three local public schools that start in Year 9 and assess in either Year 6 or 7. However, some are targeting other 13+ options and some go to grammars at 11+.

School offers ISEB practice as an ECA in first half term of Year 6 (assessment route for the Big 3 schools) and everyone gets an Atom account end of Year 5 so they can practice at home. Weekly homework on Atom is set but not mandatory.

@rosieroseflower I would make an appointment with the head or head of academics and ask for advice re. your DD. At the same time I wouldn't get too stressed as with the exception of absolute top tier schools, most will have a few places open even in Year 8, because DC often hold multiple offers and decide in year 8 which to take.

illiterato gives good advice here re not panicking too soon. We have known of 2 cases of children not being happy in year 9 of their new senior schools and being able to move with a couple of days notice on the back of a phonecall so its not as competitive as alot of these schools would like you to believe...

How does that work re fees? If you have already paid the term, then have to pay the next term's notice, then a few weeks in have to pay the new school, aren't you paying 3 times over for 10 weeks schooling?

Shampern yes you still owe the school fees. One child did a whole 2 days at a school and left and the other did a term and a half so I'm assuming the latter managed to give a term's notice.

You don't say if you have a son or daughter but if you're thinking 13+ and Eton/Winchester you have to register before the end of Year 5, and even outside those two, a lot of the school registration deadlines are surprisingly early at the start of Year 6 (ie. September in some cases) to give time for the ISEB in Oct/Nov. So now's absolutely the time to be going round visiting schools and doing open days and tours so you know which ones you like and wish to register for.

Our school did an evening session in Michaelmas of Year 5 with a handout showing all the deadlines for registration, ISEB dates and how to register and link with school admissions for each senior school, and in the Lent term of Year 5 there was a 1:1 meeting with the head for each of us with his shortlist of recommendations based on our son's CAT scores and how they thought he would fit. They were pretty much what we had been thinking already, with a couple of extras that we managed to visit in the Lent and Summer of Year 5.

That being said if you have a daughter none of my advice might apply or if you're thinking 11+!

it seems that most schools ask for a holding deposit when the offer is accepted but the first terms fees are only due by Christmas of Year 8. They therefore pay the 2-5k to hold the place when offered and then when they have to pay the first terms fees they choose between offers . Tbh some parents take the view that better to lose a term’s fees than choose the wrong school so might leave it beyond that point. The other issue is you might get a firm place on back up but get waitlisted for first choice and get a late offer on that. Depending on how strong the preference is the parents may choose to forfeit a terms fees.

@WombatChocolate I hadn't even heard of some of the schools until I looked on here. I'm all for being proactive but I feel like I've been left in the dark a bit. Year 5 and not everyone knows what school is what.

Cheltenham and wellington for example have fully booked open days.
Our school has a meeting arranged for next month which I think is a bit late.

@Xiaoxiong thanks it's for dd.

...Shudders at thought of paying two terms of fees because of not understanding everything and choosing incorrect school!

Don't worry! Many boarding schools do all the same pre-test, they used to call it the Durham test, but it's ISEB now, isn't it? It's a computer based, adaptive CAD test, and you usually do it at your prep in year 6, in the same way as you'd take CE at your home school, and they send the results to the schools you are interested in. Now some have their own tests on site, so you'll need to study the websites in detail for every school you consider. Based on the pre-test, they'll either say no straight away, or they invite you for further tests and interview, and then a conditional offer depending on CE/scholarship exams. Some schools only do 1 test in year 8, or only rely on CE. So read the website. Head usually advices in year 5 which schools 'suit', I.e. for which dc has a chance of acceptance, and like for uni, they'll advice you to also apply to an 'insurance school'. Usually most schools are happy to give you a private tour at any time, except some superoversubscriped/selective ones who'll only give you a tour after you've past pretest. So just call the schools you like and ask for a private tour if you missed Open Day.

This is one reason why I don’t like the year 6 pretest method- a lot can change between the start of year 6 and end of year 8 so what seemed the right choice in Year 6 may not in year 8. I was definitely a child who suddenly “came up the rails” from the middle of year 7. DS has proved to be the same. I’m happy with our choice as it’s a good “all round” option but there was one he didn’t make the cut where I think he might had the rest been a year later as he’s risen through the ranks.

Do you want to tell us which county/ geographic area you’re looking at and we can maybe make some suggestions?

Thank you for the advice. I will phone the schools. It is not so great to have the tests in year 6. I think my dd will also change between year 6 and year 9.

I am applying for girls and coed selective boarding schools because I think dd will be fine to board by year 9 but I'm not willing to send her in year 7 so am restricting my search to those with 13+ entry so there is at least one whole class entry and she will be one of many starting that year.

I therefore thought I had more time and was quite shocked to see you have to test in year 6.
I don't even know what prep my dc has done so far. Will phone the current head as well to try and sort things out.

Many of the girls schools have 11+ and 13+ entries - it varies which one is the main one but like you, I am sending DD at 13+. She was keen at 11+ but when it came to it she’d changed her mind as I suspected she might, so we’ve deferred. She’s a summer baby so would have only just turned 11. I also feel like I can’t inflict her untidiness on unsuspecting dorm mates. I will have to train her over the next 2 years :-)

Ours went to Dulwich Prep and they were machine like in helping kids get to the right place - a headmaster who is proactive in talking to the heads of target senior schools is invaluable.

They'll have prepared for the test - they will have done termly GLA (comprehension and vocabulary, I.e. Reading Age) and annual CAD tests that are very similar, so dc should be familiar with the format and how it practically works. You can practice at home a bit by having dd sit a couple of tests under timed conditions, so that she gets used to that. Atom Learning has computer based practice tests, I think you need to subscribe but you get a free sample, but basically any old 11plus paper from selective schools will give an idea of what might come. It's important to remember these tests are adaptive, so the better you do, the harder the questions get, so you'll need to be prepared for that and keep your nerves.