Does my son have to take the 5 core subjects

[hubbs]

Need some advice please before I ask school !!

Secondary have listed the following as the 5 core subjects that he has to take as GCSE

1. Maths
2. Eng lang
3. Eng lit
4. French
5. RE

He can then choose 3 others

he hates French and would like to substitute that for another subject as he knows already it's a waste of an exam !!

RE we don't value this an grade and it will have no bearing on what he is wanting to do but other subjects would help .

Can we do anything or are we stuck with it .... ?? Thanks

I thought only maths, 2x science and 2x English were the only compulsory.

@mimbleandlittlemy from everything that I have read schools don't have to choose RE as a core subject but some do as it is an easy exam and gives bumper pass results !!! I'm just repeating things Iv read . But he may miss out on geography due to having to take RE and Geography is going to be very useful in his desired field of employment (and I know this choice of job could all change by the time he's 18 - but it may not )

Schools timetables simply don’t allow for unlimited opinions. They can only offer as much choice as timetable allows

@Postapocalypticcowgirl Iv searched through other schools KS4 prospectus and lots of them do not have RE and a language as a core - they have it as an option ! So it must be school driven rather than gov driven .

Totally news to me that RE is compulsory in some way at KS4. Maybe they squeeze it in via “citizenship” or assemblies or something at our school, because there’s definitely nothing timetabled for my Y10 and no suggestion that they should be taking RE particularly- it was bundled in to all the other humanities as a choice alongside history, geography etc.
They did encourage languages as did we (strongly) but we didn’t force him to take it. School suggested that universities prefer the ebacc but the more I looked into it the more it seems that they don’t care either way. I do think it’s a good balance but unlikely to make any real difference.

RE was compulsory to learn when my 2 were at school but the exam was optional. However may as well do it if sitting in lessons. It's actually one of their favorite subjects because it's about views and opinions, and very useful in the world of work.

French maybe because he is bright and they want him to do the ebac- is that still a thing?

I agree individual changes won't happen if they don't fit timetabling. The timetables are nightmares- I saw them as a Governor

You have no chance of getting the school to make an exception for your child unless they have SEN in which case they will already have planned for it.

If you don't want him to do French or RE then pick another school.

RE has been compulsory in England since 1944. Schools don’t have to make every student take a GCSE in but since they are teaching it many do.

All my children did
English lit
English lang
maths
2 or 3 sciences
French (one did German instead)
History
Most also did Geography

Then they did 1 more that was a software subject eg most did music in addition to the above.

Those combinations are similar to mine and also similar to my parents at grammar school in the 1940s.

It's absolutely school driven.

At my dds school it's compulsory to do RE and a MFL.
Top set have to do further maths.
Even at a level RE is still compulsory.

It's a selective Catholic girls grammar so I suppose the RE thing is to be expected.

I was able to get a village state school to agree to drop a MFL so my DC could dpi kid up on comp sci + design technology. Their GCSEs were
Eng Lang
Eng Lit
Triple Science
Maths
Further Maths
RE
Comp Sci
Design Tech

Oh and Geography forgot that one.

Ds didn't have to take a language at GCSE & his school was a language specialist academy.

@hubbs we challenged as soon as he picked his options, before the closing date . He didn't put down a language on his form and picked a different subject that was still academically challenging, we then emailed school explaining why. He really disliked mfl but would still likely have got a 6, however he was predicted 8s and 9s in his other subjects, it made no sense for school to push him down this route. Thankfully it all worked out and he's really switched on and engaged in y10 because he enjoys every subject he's taken.

Yes, lots of schools 'cover' the compulsory RE thing by pretending it's happening in assemblies/PSHCE/Citizenship/tutor time - the other established route, which it sounds like OP's school are going for, is the compulsory GCSE option.

If it's timetabled - eg 10A do it p1n Monday & p2 Tuesday - then it's not terribly likely that, let's say OP & her ds would like him to study geography, that there would just randomly happen to be a yeàr 10 geography class happening then. Most likely 10B are also doing RE, & 10C & 10D are doing core PE, which OP's ds will find elsewhere on his timetable anyway.

Timetabling is definitely a dark art, but it's usually quite inflexible at KS4. Only so many staff & teaching rooms are available.

The only essential subjects are maths, English and science. These are the core subjects.

A lot of schools encourage the EBacc pathway. This is a link to the Department for Education web page which explains the route and school motivation behind this in
www.gov.uk/government/publications/english-baccalaureate-ebacc/english-baccalaureate-ebacc

This is a link that explains subjects which have to be taught.
www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/other-compulsory-subjects

However, RE and a foreign language GCSE are not compulsory (and not taking them will not limit future opportunities unless a course/job is subject specific) , so the policy is school driven.

The policy is school driven but pushed due to government priorities.

Everywhere has to study RE whether examined or not. The only real difference between you and other schools is a forced language. You 'only' get four options in most schools and one of those is History or Geography.

The compulsory language will probably be because the school is following the ebacc pathway. If that is the case you will have zero luck in getting them to change their minds about the language.

The gov website you linked shows that RE is compulsory to be studied at KS4. However it is not a compulsory GCSE exam.

Schools that don't offer it as a proper provision can get pulled up on it by ofsted. Some get around it via assemblies, form time discussions, collapsed days and putting it in with PSHE/RHSE (which is also compulsory) but this isn't ideal really as they are different subjects

My typical academic state school/grammar school and private school list is quite a good set of 8 or 9 to do to keep options open for A levels and university. (I typed software above and meant "softer"...)

My ds went to a grammar school and he didn’t have to take a language. English, Maths, Science, RE and Computing were compulsory though! However when he got to Year 11 and was obviously finding 10 subjects too much he was allowed to drop Computing and one of his options.

@Ilovegardens that's great thanks . It's madness to make them do something they have no interest in (especially french when the whole world speaks Spanish !!!!) when they could be doing a subject they are passionate about !! Thanks for the info x

Thanks everyone lots of info to digest but also looks like school has set out it's stall and that the "dark art " 😂😂 of timetabling will be what decides sons future GCSEs !!

I'll speak to school as soon as the event opens .

Cheers 👋🏻

This was 20 years ago but I was allowed to drop GCSE French to support my success in the other subjects following a sudden bereavement in my family. Different times and circumstances though.

It isn't unusual to only get 3 'free' choices at GCSE.
RE is often short course and as such is taught in much less time than a full GCSE.

It is unusual I would say for a comp to mandate MFL for all. But it may be that those not doing MFL have the time 'saved' put into extra maths & English so dropping French wouldn't help.

(DD's comp mandated MFL for any one doing triple science. Everyone was mandated History or Geography. They also claimed that pupils who had to 'work' at a subject did better overall).

Check before choosing which GCSEs you have to have taken to go on to the A level. Remember GCSEs are a 'General' qualification not the time to specialise. (e.g. Not doing Computing GCSE doesn't stop you taking it for A level.)

if geography is going to be 'useful for future employment' then he should probably pick it as one of his 3 free choices, shouldn't he? Though tbh any GCSE isn't going to be massively useful.

Calm yourself, roll with it, be positive to your DS.