Can a good school overcome home influence and environment?

[OcadoHummus]

That's all, really.

What do you think about the impact that a good school and aspirational teachers can have on the outcomes for kids who may not have the best home lives?

Can schools make up for the lack of parental support a child experiences? For instance, parents who never attend parents' evening or read.

Or do they end up a product of their environment in most cases?

Sometimes I feel after being in teaching 20+ years many of those in education lose their optimism when it comes to expectations sadly.

it’s interesting you chose attending parents evening and reading with children as examples. Of course they are important, but not nearly as important as things like love, affection, emotional responsiveness etc.

I completely concur that love and emotional support are much more significant than the things I mentioned. I believe I just mentioned these because those who work in schools would "see" these and determine who receives the most care and support based on this.

I did my PGCE at 50 after a successful career elsewhere, in secondary because I didn't want to teach tots. I was, I think, quite a reasonable teacher but because I wasn't 23 and malleable, and because I had earned previously more than most heads, I was dumped into the 'too hard to manage' bucket. I still think I could have done a good job. So I went back to managing pension funds. Small ones!

To complete the message, I loved teaching and bringing kids to knowing that they could be good at understanding ideas and exploring them.

I think it depends - I think everyone I know who's done "well" has done so because of parent's encouragement and support rather than a school alone. And I don't think it's a class or intelligence or wealth thing either. I know people who are the kids of teachers, lawyers, super successful entrepreneurs etc who were at top private schools but who've had very poor outcomes as their parents were quite lazy and left it up to the school to bring up their kids basically.

I think for kids from more challenging (?) backgrounds, more targeted support is needed. There's a lot of research about how building relationships is essential for positive development, and I just don't think most teachers have the time to build positive relationships with their students.

My BIL supports a charity near him in the north which works with kids in care and from underprivileged backgrounds and they do educational support but the results their students get are phenomenal as they have the time to build those meaningful relationships with students and providing support that they don't always have at home

It would be difficult, but it would be something to have some positive role models in ones life if they don't have that elsewhere

It would be nice to think it could but a 'good school' is what, exactly?

Staff who can nurture, motivate and encourage children make a difference because they are safeguarding and genuinely caring to the children. In the face of the first 5 years of trauma, brain development, attachment issues and environmental factors added to children being at school approx 15% of their time, it becomes apparent that teachers are being sold an impossible dream. You can't be psychologist, social worker, parent, teacher. You can be a fantastic teacher who nurtures and educates and stops when the hours are done.

Research shows that if a child has a caring adult in their life, one that supports and believes in them. that can make a difference. Preferably a parent or a relative but a teacher, sports coach, youth worker etc. can all make a difference to a child's life.

You can't be psychologist, social worker, parent, teacher. You can be a fantastic teacher who nurtures and educates and stops when the hours are done.
I agree with this and think some of the rheotric around teaching is harmful.

On one hand you've got the superhero stories where teachers are told they're personally going to change all these lives and fix the wrongs of society by teaching.

On the other hand you've got endless cuts to relevant services that support children and families, with teachers being expected to pick up the slack because they had a 2 hour staff meeting on child mental health and wellbeing. They simply can't do it.

The two together is problematic and doesn't give children the best outcomes.

The extent to which teachers can help depends on the child and their problems. Issues caused by poverty and other difficult circumstances such as berievement can be overcome more easily than issues caused by toxic parenting. Some children are open to encouragement, and can learn to believe in themselves. Others aren't, maybe because they're too damaged by their home life and/or because they don't see any need to change. It also depends on the teacher of course, some are more skilled at reaching the more difficult kids than others. So in any school you will probably find some examples of positive teacher-student relationships, but you'll never find a school where every teacher-student relationship is positive.

YES they most definitely can change lives for the better!

Name changed. Like some of the posters on here have already written about, I was born into alcoholism, violence; instability and poverty and had not one bit of positive parental support.

School was my sanctuary, a stable place, a place to succeed.

I worked hard escaping into school work (with parents who never once in 12 years visited the school) and participated in every single thing on offer at school so I didn't have to go home. Doing well at school was the only positive thing in my life, even if no-one else cared.

In my childhood country there was no such thing as government student loans however because I had done well enough at school, I was awarded a bursary to go to university, the first in my family - and went on to an independent life I could never have achieved without the early presence of inspirational teachers.

Looking back my teachers must have known about my crappy home life, everyone did - but they made me feel "normal" because they never asked about it, there was no extra attention - they always just focused on gently pushing me to challenge myself.

They gave me academic encouragement and; simply by being a consistent stable adults, they were at the time my most meaningful and aspirational role models. They were clever, dressed smartly, professional and had a passion for their subjects. Everything my family was not and everything I aspired to be.

It was just "schoolwork" or "extra curricular" but the simple fact that the teachers made a positive comment every now and then, believed in me and encouraged me was everything. All I had.

I feel teary writing this now. It is honestly true.

I think we all know now that the first 3 years of a child’s life make the most difference. So we need targeted money for some Dc. Sure Start was a bit random and Dc who didn’t need it were on it.

At primary, there is a big push for quality first teaching. It makes the most difference. There’s also PP funding that should be targeted to making a difference. We then go to secondary school. Again high quality teaching is key. But you need more. You need homework clubs. Quiet spaces for work. Mentors. Careers and university guidance. You must ensure Dc can work to the best of their ability and good teachers do this. They enhance the outcomes for Dc. Some Dc will pull away from their home circumstances. Others find it more difficult.

I therefore think it’s a mixed picture. The best schools really can make a difference. The best parents make a bigger difference.

It can make a difference, but it's such a lottery. Many school environments either don't really improve a child's chances, or they may even actually contribute to the child's trauma. Not because the teachers don't care, but because the behaviour of students and the workload of the staff are past the point of being manageable.

I now work in a lovely, supportive school which I'm sure does make a genuine difference to a lot of students and is probably genuinely a real lifeline for some with difficult family circumstances.

Well done to you all, such an achievement when you don't get the best start in life.
Out of interest, was your mum a big influence on you all?

Your story is sadly the exception, takes very strong character to go against the values we observe at home.

@KnittingDiva DM was a constant, although she never went to a parent's evening, never stood up to him and wasn't supportive with clean clothes or puberty type stuff. I think she was too exhausted and too deprived to make a stand.

But she did take us to the library on Saturdays while she food shopped. Books were an escape.

What did your mother do?

@TizerorFizz the aims of SureStart including it evolving into what parents in that area needed. One of my SILs did lots of work with Surestart so I ended up looking at their material she left around her home.

Some of the stuff was commonsense for those brought up in multi-generational families where people nurtured children. However having now seen some of my well-off friends and acquaintances from small families not know or struggle with things I thought were the norm, I now understand why they were put in areas where it appeared on the surface that parents didn't need them.

I think the teacher themselves makes a huge difference. DS last year just didn't gel with his teacher, she was nice but inexperienced and didn't get him very well, the results were tears, trying to avoid school, hardly any progress. New teacher this year, and ds is making amazing progress and loves school. Still the same school, parents and home life, just a new teacher who made all the difference. I am so grateful to the teacher, she was a god sent!

Totally agree with this. Personality of the teacher and whether they get on with your child makes a massive difference.

When I was in school certain teachers would just decide to take a disliking for certain children. It/they were awful.

I've worked in education for nearly 30 years, some 18 of those in pretty challenging socio-economic circumstances. I think a majority of teachers can teach pupils about the pathways, treat them as though they are expected to do well, and learn to be empathetic and aware of the impact of home circumstances. You can open doorways, show them the path put you can't force them through it. Going against a family narrative and societal expectation is a massive thing for a young person to achieve (the "I wouldn't fit in there" messages young people might tell themselves about certain universities for example). In some, the same treatment provoked hostility and defensiveness. (Kids and their families can be very knowing and cynical about perceived "do-gooder" approaches).
That said, I treasure the messages I have had from some ex-students who saw that I did do something that assisted them or encouraged them or protected them. Did I change their lives? Maybe not, but I did my job and saw the potential and at least helped.

I went to Private school and we had great teachers and unlimited resources.
However there were a few kids who had shitty parents and unfortunately they didn’t go well academically and in some cases got expelled for behaviour

Do most teachers blame bad behaviour or lack of discipline on the parents then?