Lawyers of mumsnet- help with DD's A level choices

[Mumof3lovelies]

Hi everyone!!
My eldest DD is due to pick her A level choices soon- she's in year 11. Where does all the time go? Anyway, she's very keen to be a lawyer and I think she'd make a great one, but I'm not very experienced in this career path. She's not sure what to pick and I'm curious as to what will help her the most (and what universities will want!!) I know there's Google and trust me, she's done a lot of googling, but I thought I should take it from the best, so what A levels did you pick if you wanted to be a lawyer?? Thanks in advance mumsnet!! Any tips or advice for this career also welcome!! xx

Stick to traditional subjects and don't do a level law!

History, English, maths, any sciences, economics, languages are ideal but one not so traditional is ok with 2 more conservative choices. Joining a debating club would be useful if her school has one

English, history and psychology here. I also started French but dropped it. I wasn't aware psychology was deemed a lesser A level - I was told it was akin to a science A level and I actually found it quite tricky as it was very different to any other subject I'd studied before.

I got a first in my Law LLB at a highly rated university so it can't have been too bad for me

Echo what PPs have said. Traditional subjects are best, but she should do what she enjoys within those subjects as she's more likely to do well. Don't bother with a Law A Level.

I enjoyed my law degree and was happy I got to spend longer on the topics (cramming the essentials into a year was not for me) plus you can study some non-essentials - I hugely enjoyed IP and competition law and they have fed into my career.

I did English Lit, Geography and French.

It is important that she gets the highest grades possible so go for what she is best and/or what she likes.

My husband also a solicitor did Physics, Chemistry and Biology!

In London. Not in the regions

Op what grades are she forecast? Law is very competitive and it’s a long hard road. To give an idea of competitive ness it’s in region of 2000 bar applicants each year and about 200 pupilages available. Solicitors are similar, but that route is changing.

law is something she needs to think through due to its competitiveness. It can also be incredibly low paid for a barrister. Think of the solicitor as the case manager. The barrister is front of house, Solicitors can also be low paid, but barristers can have it very tough as it’s effectively self employed. It can also be very very highly paid, for both, it depends on the area of law. Criminal can be very low paid, corporate /commercial the highest. But with many nuances.

I’m glad you think I’m important but that is not what I said. I took issue with your rather boorish statement that anyone who found undergraduate law dreary would be herself dreary, limited in outlook and ability.

In answer to your question, I read law as an undergraduate and as a postgraduate (LLM), both at Oxbridge. Am I suitably qualified to comment, do you think?!

In some regionals too. At my DH'S firm NQ starts at £52k.

But unlikely to be on 150 at two years pqe in the regions.

I did not find my law degree dreary (except maybe company law but that is essential). It had lightbulb moments for me how various competing concepts came together and the law has to strike a balance and do justice. It was intellectually fulfilling.

I did Physics, Maths and further Maths ...

All I will say is that if someone finds the Law degree dreary, then please don't be a commercial solicitor because the practice of law can be more dreary than law school. But I still find it very interesting because to a lawyer words are your tools and craft. You must love reading and picking apart documents and arguments.

Lawyer here, I did English, English Literature and History. I went through the CILEX route. I'm now an Associate.

Agree with everyone - do the academic subjects she will do best in. I did physics chemistry biology and then an arts degree and became an intellectual property solicitor. These days most have science degrees in that specialism.
The best experience she can get at the moment is to go and sit in the back of her local court - county, crown or mags (assuming she is over 16). Watch what is going on. Listen to counsel address the court, watch how the judge manages the courtroom or the legal advisor advises the lay magistrates on the law, see a jury concentrating on evidence, or whatever. Of course not all law is litigation but it will give her a start. If she pays attention to who counsel are, and Google them, she could later email and ask for a mini pupillage/work experience. There aren’t many who would refuse a sixthformer who emails to say “I saw you prosecute a gbh in Sheffield in December 2022 and I would love to spend a few days gaining work experience with you”!

Letters to ajar student isa useful book to read about a law degree.

I did a law degree at 45, then masters, and it was really interesting. I enjoyed equity and tort and land law. I really can't imagine enjoying any of them much at 18.

Being a barrister is a long time of being minimum wage I'd imagine. And that assuming you even get a place.

Good luck to her! If she is interested in looking into the solicitor route, some firms offer short summer placements post A levels I'd recommend looking into, it's never too early to get some work experience. No need to make any decisions now, but worth knowing that barristers (unless employed in house) are self employed, it suits a lot of people but not me. As well as a degree she's passionate about, I'd suggest getting involved in the extra curriculars at university as it seems to be expected to have more than the academics on your cv. Wishing her all the best with her career! I've found it paid very well but they obviously want a lot in return. Friends who are city partners frequently have to cancel weekend plans for a deal, but I bet they'll retire in comfort a lot earlier than I will!

Also The secret barrister is a good insight into the criminal bar, you can listen on BBC sounds

A law degree is desperately dull

And that was your own boorish comment which my own intentionally boorish comment was in response to snowjive2. It appeared to be very superior to others who found their degree far from dull, but then you clarified that you were, in fact, superior. My bad.

What skills would you recommend? Any clubs or things to perfect that will give her an advantage when applying for universities?

I don't think there are any clubs which she should feel she needs to join to boost a UCAS application. She should do exactly what interests her and nothing else. The only thing I would recommend is getting involved with mooting at university level once there to give her a feel for which branch of the profession she might prefer.

I chose English language, English literature and history which set me up well for all the reading and writing!

Physics, Chemistry, Maths and General Studies, followed by a Physics Degree and two years in work before the conversion course.

But that was all rather a long time ago now.

I didn’t do Sociology but a Partner I work with did (he’s now top of equity and went to Cambridge) on a random conversation about A-Levels he said he’s done Sociology and it was without a doubt the most interesting A-level he’d done (think his others were same as me Eng Lit and History).

But I should say he’s older than me so we’re talking going to Uni in the 90s.

@Mumof3lovelies
Theres some good advice here and some odd comments. Like another poster, I have a DD who is a barrister. So, this is my take on it. (Don’t know about being a solicitor).

If your DD is very very bright, then being a barrister is perfectly possible. Even if not so bright if she chooses the right field! However not a single barrister seems reserved and not good at articulating a point of view: advocating for the client. So she must get over any shyness or being reserved. Take drama lessons! Do LAMDA. It really will help. Be in the school play. Sing!

You need a very good academic degree. Law or similar academic subject. Of course law suits many but others take classics, MFL, History, English, Music even. Just don’t take Criminology. Always aim for the highest ranked university. It doesn’t matter that people will say they are all equal, if she wants to be a barrister, they are not. Barristers are overwhelmingly RG educated and 40% Oxbridge.

There are around 400 plus pupilage (training in Chambers) opportunities each year post qualifying academically as a barrister.. Mini pupilage applications (where you spend 1 week in chambers on work experience) are regulated by each chambers. Don’t just email! This is something for second year university. They select who they want.

Decide what sort of barrister. This is vital. Barristers specialise.,Crime doesn’t pay. Family pays better. DD does family and people get divorced and pay! Commercial and civil law has loads of other possibilities and good earnings! You are not allowed in a family law court, but do go and visit a court. When at university, join every law society going, moot and get work experience if you can. DD worked for the CAB post degree. Try a solicitor for work experience. You have to
get your application noticed. Be a juducial
assistant when the time is right. DDs friend was judicial assistant to the Lord Chief Justice. Do the MLaw at Cambridge if you want to be a high flying commercial solicitor/barrister.

As for A levels: many lawyers do History and English or MFL. Maths is useful. However there are no specified subjects but essay ones are helpful. When DD is at university, it’s all deadlines! Applying for mini pupilages, applying for courses, scholarships etc. It’s then full on with pupilage applications.

Some chambers quote their pupilage award with earnings and others the bare pupilage award. The award is like a training payment and not taxable. Earnings: pretty high. Just not for crime. Less in the regions. The sky is the limit in London.

Please ask me anything you would like to know. The above is a bit disjointed. The Inns of Court have info about becoming a barrister.