Private school class sizes

[schoolmum101]

For various reasons we decided to opt for private education and have generally been happy with the level of education provided and the kids have been really happy. However, going back this year and in gcse year the class size seems a fair bit bigger than it's been in the past. I get that schools are suffering with increased costs like the rest of us and maybe this is one way of keeping fee increases modest, but one of the deciding factors for parents when choosing to go private is the smaller class size. I wouldn't have chosen to pay for this school if I'd known the class sizes would be bigger at GCSEs. Now we're basically locked in as it will be too disruptive to look elsewhere. Just wondering if anyone has noticed similar?

Top sets especially have slightly larger class sizes but definitely most private schools with have 20 or less in a class. Very unusual to have much larger classes.
Don't forget that the teachers are much more available outside of classes to the students (if they do need extra support) too, so one to one sessions can happen during lunch or free periods.

A good teacher can teach bigger classes if they are streamed. How big is big? Some subjects with fewer doing them must be smaller classes one would think.

Research shows class size unless very small doesn’t have much of an impact on outcomes so I wouldn’t worry about this

@TizerorFizz So true. We have found this in state system. Some really amazing teachers who manage to get stellar results with 30 children. Boggles the mind!

Was the school not full in previous years and now it is?
What sort of sizes are you talking about - and what’s the difference?

In smaller schools particularly, there may be an element of luck about class sizes for optional subjects. Suppose they aim for max 20 per class, but 25 want to do a subject. Do they run two small classes, tell some kids they're getting their reserve option choice, or one larger class? One larger class with the teacher getting an extra free for marking might work as well as two small ones, and cost less.

Smaller class sizes are much more important in the primary years, and many schools have a system whereby the top sets are larger than the lower sets (as those who find the subject harder need greater input)

Lots of schools have classes of 24 or so in secondary, and top sets can be larger.

What sort of size class has your school reached?

It's gone up to 26 kids in some classes. It's always been well under 20 in previous years. I don't doubt what people are saying about results being the same with larger classes. I guess the reason I'm annoyed is that one of the main reasons we chose this school over grammar was because one of my kids is extremely shy, socially anxious and won't speak up with questions. The prep he attended said he'd get lost in a large class. Now I'm thinking there wouldn't have been much difference to where he is now. It's too late to change so we just have to stay put but hopefully other parents can learn from my experience.

Hopefully, having been there a while,

• his confidence will have increased a little
• he knows better how to ask the questions he doesn't want to ask out loud
• the staff have got to know him and know that he might need keeping an eye on because he's quiet.

26 might still be smaller than in the state school, although again, it can be quite variable for options subjects, just depending on how many chose each subject.

My DD just got her GCSE results. She’s at CLSG, class sizes for English/Maths/Science and popular GCSE subjects is 26. She just got all 9’s. CLSG is top of the table in today’s 2022 GCSE results table in the Telegraph. Many of her mates got all 9’s. Her ex prep school mates went to an indie with class sizes of 12. There were 3 kids who got all 9’s in a cohort of 50 more than CLSG from both sexes. Class sizes aren’t indicative of performance. Being with likeminded students is in my opinion more valuable,

Great teaching is THE most important thing. Whether class size of 30 or 20. A useless teacher is useless for everyone!

My youngest is in a large class for A level maths (don't actually know how many, but could be large for a FM class anywhere I suspect); they were told at the start that not everyone would be staying in that class as they are accelerated, and the alternative would give them more lessons if still doing FM - but everyone was determined to keep up. I think it works; and is offset by smaller classes in his other subjects.

Larger classes with similar ability bright students will work well; in a mixed ability class I'd prefer to see smaller numbers.

Keep communicating with your child's tutor and ask specifically about involvement in class - I'd hope they'd recognise difficulties and encourage things that will help.

As @TizerorFizz says. All the studies show that a great teacher is the single most important factor, way ahead of class size. DCs are much better off in a large class with a great teacher than a small class with a weak one.

I think that’s to big. I’d have a complain.

’too’ even.

Interesting thread. PP is correct that the effect size for class sizes is minimal unless the class is really tiny. Nevertheless smaller class sizes are one of the biggest selling points for private schools. Interesting that parents are not bothered.

I would be furious in your position, OP. In a state grammar he’d be in classes of 25-30 with likely equally good (if not better) teaching.

The state grammars are not 25 in a class near me. Often appeals have taken them to 32 in a class. Minority subjects at gcse can reduce classes but core subjects can have big classes. They still manage exceptional results though with high added value.

I wouldn’t be happy with 26 in a class at private school. I’d feel that was about 10 too many.

But it’s going to depend on what the alternatives are. If 30 plus in a class in a not very good comp then private is better. A decent grammar: I wouldn’t be paying just for small class sizes. We did pay and we live in a grammar area. We got loads more for our money than class sizes. If that’s the only perceived benefit (which might not be one at all) then why pay?

My DD’s was always anything between 16-20 children, 26 is a bit high

I work in a state comprehensive teaching a core subject. Our mixed ability KS3 classes are around 22-25 and our ability sets at KS4 are typically no more than 25- 26 except for the most able, which are typically 30-31.

I have very little experience of the private sector but 26 seems very large given the usual draw of small class sizes.

Yes but small classes are a selling point for parents who don’t understand that all teaching is not equal. As for wanting under 10 in a class: not much discussion going on. I think 20-24 is great but this doesn’t always work out with sets. DC abilities are rarely equal in distribution.

Small class sizes were a selling point for OP for her child’s particular personality and needs. I’d be pretty unimpressed in her position.

Surely it depends more on what the children are like than the actual numbers in the class. If the children and hard working , self motivated and able to stay on task then it doesn’t really make much difference how many in the room as long as the teacher can be available outside of lesson time for individual queries etc. the smaller they split down groups and the teacher is doubling up on teaching time they will have less available time outside of class. We’re not in the private sector but my sons class there is only 6 kids as many more and there would be total carnage and no one would learn anything (kids all autistic and already not coped in main stream schools)

@TizerorFizz yes but teaching is often less good in private sector (less access to excellent training, modern methods etc) and often schools rely on small classes to make up for this. If she has the double whammy of inferior teaching AND larger classes then she should be upset at what she is paying for. Sometimes it is hard to gauge the quality of teaching if you aren't knowledgeable about what good modern teaching looks like.