TES; top grades fall dramatically at private schools

[Bougiebliss]

Yesterday’s TES

www.tes.com/magazine/news/secondary/levels-2022-top-grades-fall-private-schools?amp

Hmmmm… so what changed in their teaching over the last year?
This feels really distasteful not only for the hard working children in schools that didn’t inflate, but also for those children who got on to courses based on the inflated grades and are presumably struggling.
I can’t help feeling that if this was something local comps had done there would be more outrage.

Private schools. If I hear a child gets good results from a private school I internally 🙄 and think -“of course you did dear”. Don’t feel they’ve done anything of note. Most people I know feel the same.

In terms of grade boundaries there is quite a difference. As an example in Edexcel further maths with 300 marks available you had to get 200/300 to get an A and 243/300 to get an A*

@Drivebye interestingly j was talking to a Durham mum last week. Her son got 4 a stars from a state sixth form and she was worried that he wouldn’t cope - but the college had been absolutely rigorous in their testing (and some of his college friends hadn’t got the high grades as a consequence.)

Her son has coped really well, college for 6th form sets you up to be very indpendent I think. But he said that there are going to be lots of retakes on his Durham course as others were struggling (didn’t specify where his peers had got the grades from.) So it sounds like in this instance at least, those with high grades from last year aren’t coping too well at the next step.

I think there were different approaches over the two TAG type years. The first year, when there was meant to be moderation but an 11th hour u-turn, our (private) school was extremely rigorous in getting to their grades. Lots of exams and additional work during that first lockdown to evidence their grades.

They'd not inflated grades as they'd allocated grades in the normal distribution of the average over the previous two years. They knew some other schools hadn't done this but were convinced it was the right approach and meant there wouldn't be the fairly blunt instrument of moderating x% of grades by x, or whatever, as you'd overcooked them.

I think most schools took a more liberal approach during year 2 as there wasn't the same moderation planned. As a result, there was grade inflation across both state and private. I'm not sure what our school did as I didn't have a child in the exam cohort last year.

For the exam boards who were supposed to approve the grade allocation processes and sign off on the grades?

As I said upthread, if teacher assessment is biased towards the sorts of kids there are more of in private schools, and less of in state schools (which we know is the case) then how can you show it was deliberate?

The numbers seem to show it - I would like to see the drop out for the last year for uni. For my daughters first year she has seen a fair few leave across different courses, mix of reasons still being online and struggling seem to be the two main reasons.

For my daughter she went to a state school and for her she was impacted by teachers marking (marked lower) - I don’t blame teachers it was a very bumpy, unknown what was going on ride! Teachers are only human! I can imagine the private school is much more transactional based and the removal of exams meant parents I assume expected a level of marks etc

My daughter may not have got the grades she could have got if exams happened, who knows. But she happy(ish) doing well and achieving good grades - her only wish would be more face 2 face and less online for her second year.

@noblegiraffe problem is this year unlike others the RG unis will not consider even a 1 grade drop in most cases so that AAB has to be just that, it’s unfair as previously in many cases you would have been accepted with a grade less like ABB. another kick in the teeth for a group of kids who have had both their gcse and A levels screwed with

Predicting grades this year was really difficult in general (not just for UCAS). I've got years of experience to draw on, but there were so many unknowns, because the kids aren't graded on the standard of their work, but the standard of their work compared to their cohort. I knew my class had been impacted by covid, but was it worse or better for them than other schools? What was the impact of the advanced information? Did knowing the topics in advance mean that everyone would do better in the exam and therefore the grade boundaries would be higher and my class do worse than I thought?

As it was, on results day this year I was genuinely shocked to see how well my class had done. Obviously grades are higher than they would have been in 2019, but I don't think that accounts for all of it, and other schools must have had a really rough time this past couple of years (not that we had a great time, but my class was lucky to have consistent teaching from qualified teachers for a start). Anyway, I think we actually under-predicted UCAS this year in some instances when we thought we were being generous.

Every year it comes up for discussion how shit the UCAS predicted grades system is, and every year they talk about rearranging the year to create a post-results application system, and every year nothing happens about it and schools continue to get the blame for what is a stupid system.

Private schools. If I hear a child gets good results from a private school I internally 🙄 and think -“of course you did dear”. Don’t feel they’ve done anything of note. Most people I know feel the same

In a way I agree with you but this attitude doesn't tally with the other common mumsnet argument that parents who pay fees are throwing money away on fancy facilities and posh reputations only. People argue till they are blue in the face that the education is just as good at most state schools.

The daughter of some friends I know through church has just got into Oxford from a struggling comp. She comes from a large family with so many problems and so little money. It is an absolutely phenomenal achievement and I totally believe she worked harder for her success and should be more proud of herself than my private school educated children.

But it can't go both ways. Either private school parents are buying an advantage and the average state school is a lesser experience or they're wasting their money and results are results regardless of school. I don't see how both attitudes can be true. Maybe it's different people who say the two things, idk.

@blameitonthecaffeine
Surely it is a school by school comparison. I wouldn’t pay for our local private school even if the money was gifted to me as it is dreadful. But there are others I would love to send my kids to. Wise parents don’t pick a sector they pick a school surely.

Personally, I think private schools aren't worth it for kids who are naturally very bright, confident and self motivated. We could have gone private but after looking at all of the options, we genuinely didn't think it was worth it for a kid like dd. She is now almost at the end of her school education, and I'm still very much of the view that there would have been no benefit at all in her going to a private school, and possibly she would have lost out on certain aspects of what she has gained from being in the state sector.

However, I do think that private schools probably confer advantages on kids who are average or just a bit above average academically, and also for those who aren't particularly self motivated or for those who are lacking in confidence. Ie for those kids who need a slightly pushier environment or bit more attention from teachers.

In light of the above, I believe that private education would have been a complete waste of money for our dd, but at the same time, I recognise that kids who are "average" within the state sector would probably benefit significantly from some of what the private schools have to offer.

I think, if people knew the genuine mess state education is in right now, they'd be less inclined to see private education as not really conferring any advantages beyond shiny facilities.

My DD is very bright, very motivated and a proficient independent learner in a non selective fairly low achieving state school. At the same time is extremely shy by nature and lacks obvious confidence. Grade wise she could not have done any better at a private school. Whether they could have effected her intrinsic nature I don't know. It might have made her more uncomfortable and she could have done less well. She is off to Oxford and it will be interesting to see whether this confers any extra confidence or polish over the next 4 yrs.

There are always exceptions though. DS was given teacher awarded grades for GCSE and I'm certain that his school tried to be as above board and honest as possible to his detriment. Given that his A level results by examination were significantly above predicted grades, I think he was hard done by at GCSE. Why? Because he's a boy with busy sporting commitments who has always struggled to work consistently (done the bare minimum )during term term and then worked like crazy for exams. Same with CE. I'm so glad he wasn't teacher assessed for A levels!

@carben in my experience of myself boarding and watching nieces and nephews at private school it doesn’t change your core personality. I had all types of friends, some introverted some extroverted, plenty struggled with doing a speech or presentation or playing an instrument/ singing in choir in public. In the days before private schools became the slick PR and marketing organisations they are, it used to be admitted quite openly by teachers and house masters that ‘you can’t turn a sows ear into a silk purse’ and reports would talk about how little hope there was for the children in certain areas (my husbands’ old ones are hilarious!)
there are plenty of children at private schools with mental health problems and social anxiety, many do not bounce out fully confident in to the world. And plenty go on to have very normal jobs with very average incomes.
you can’t buy the confidence/ arrogance that some people attribute to a private education, that is more likely to come from being born into wealth and feeling very assured around other people in powerful positions due to being socialised with them from day one in your family home and on holidays etc. You can’t easily buy in to that network it can take several generations. Also that gilded world of social elites isn’t the promised land - awash with drink, drugs, fraud, marital issues,… just like all sectors of society.

Yes I think the effect of a school can be overestimated. And agree the top echelons is a closed shop. I used to work professionally with the elite - they socialise with each other marry each each other and help each other. If you’re not in you’re not in - going to the local private school doesn’t change that.

Interesting analysis and without any experience of private schools I tend to agree. There are definitely 'networks' that look after their own which can be hard to break into if you don't 'belong'. As my DD is a mathematician - being an introvert might be less of a disadvantage. Who knows?! I just hope she enjoys Oxford, the hard maths and the independence. She will still be a sow's ear but one with an Oxford degree.

Dh realised this at Cambridge his friends on his course we were all women - they were friendly. The men were not - his face didnt fit (comp). He Found a really nice group in his college though (mostly linguists) but the men doing law were in his words “knobs”.

I worked in investment banking which has more than its fair share of posh boys from privileged backgrounds and elite private schools. (I was one of two females in a department of 100 and went to a grammar school, so double tick for diversity...).

It was interesting that a couple of my colleagues had a real chip on their shoulders. They also went to state school but felt inferior/not in the 'club'. But actually it was their misplaced perception of being looked down on that was the issue.

This wasn't the case but people didn't like their stroppy and aggressive behaviour as they always felt they were the victims. As a result, they weren't part of the main social group. If they'd had the confidence to realise that no one carried what school they'd been to, it would have been fine.

I went to a comprehensive, straight A/A*s at GCSE. I was a mark off a B in my first maths module in year 12 prior to my ucas application and had to beg and plead not to be predicted a C (no chance of getting into medical/vet school with this) - I was also told not to bother applying as no one gets in anyway.

I got straight As in the end and got a place. This was 20 years ago but it still rankles that the school were so keen to discourage me and seemed to have no faith in their students. I don't think this would have been the case at a private/grammar school. I hope things have improved since then.

Yes, I can just imagine that Oxbridge law is full of 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation 'lawyer students' who know it all before they get there or at least think they do. It could work to your advantage though if they are complacent. Anyone that has got there from a state background is clearly driven and very bright. Maybe they were 'knobs' because they feared these unknown 'upstarts'. And so they should. Times are changing - slowly - but it is happening.

Dh isn’t chippy he got on brilliantly at his magic circle law firm and was very popular. But first year law Cambridge- closed shop. That was ages ago hopefully different now!

Sorry if there has already been a link. I am afraid I cannot link the whole article from last year. I will try and trace it. The Times did a lot of investigation that showed independent schools massively over inflated Teacher assessed A level grades in 2021
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools-gamed-covid-rules-to-give-their-pupils-more-top-a-levels-6z0z6w9r5
It has not properly been sorted satisfactorily yet but it made a lot of university admissions tutors very angry.
Next year will be the real game changer for independent exam results. State school teachers are so closely checked up on to ensure predicted grades are accurate. Independent schools not so much.
There was a lot of concern in Higher Education over this huge discrepancy over teacher assessed results in Independent Schools.

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/feb/06/labour-seeks-inquiry-into-huge-jump-in-top-grade-a-levels-at-private-schools

Sorry for the Daily Mail link but you do get the full article and tables in this link

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10482061/Private-schools-gamed-Covid-double-grades-investigation-finds.html