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Original poster

How can you find out if you're an "independent student"

79 replies

PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 15:44

For student finance?

DS has worked full time on a fairly decent salary for his age and paid keep at home for 3 years. He's now decided University is for him after all and needs to apply for student finance. The guidance says if you've "supported yourself" for 3 years you're an independent student, but it isn't clear what supporting yourself means.

It will make a big difference to what he's entitled to of it's based on household income or his own income. He hasn't cost me anything as such for 3 years and he has contributed financially to runnign the house, but obviously that's not quite the same as being completely independent.

He's 19yo, so doesn't qualify on age.

OP posts:
titchy · 15/08/2022 15:49

Well he hasn't supported himself for three years has he? He may have done for a year, but he was presumably a full student at sixth form for the two years be for that, and working around that. Confused

If he'd been estranged from you and living independently since 16 he'd be able to claim independent status. Living with parents isn't being independent, however lucrative the part time job is!

CredibilityProblem · 15/08/2022 15:51

Not a chance.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 15:51

No he wasn't. He left school at 16 and has worked full time, alongside PT study, ever since.

OP posts:
Russell19 · 15/08/2022 15:52

No he's not. It means you've had no financial help from anyone for 3 years.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 15:53

He doesn't have Alevels (or any level 3 qualification) He's been accepted to a Russel Group University because of work He's done in his employment and spare time.

OP posts:
Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 15:54

Oh dear. Proud as I am, I didn't mean to give him a capital H!

OP posts:
Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 15:55

Russell19 · 15/08/2022 15:52

No he's not. It means you've had no financial help from anyone for 3 years.

He hasn't had any financial help. He's paid for everything himeself and essentially "let" a room in this house.

OP posts:
Aberration · 15/08/2022 15:55

He’d have to live independently from you to qualify. Living with mum and dad doesn’t count even if he pays keep.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 15:56

Aberration · 15/08/2022 15:55

He’d have to live independently from you to qualify. Living with mum and dad doesn’t count even if he pays keep.

That's what I'd have thought, but that's not the way it reads.

OP posts:
CredibilityProblem · 15/08/2022 16:00

I agree that I can't see it in black and white that he can't apply.

I guess if you had a written rent agreement, bank statements showing the rent he's paid you for the last three years, and evidence that that's the same as the market house share rent, bills and food would have been in your area throughout that time then it's theoretically possible. I still don't think it would be allowed.

burnoutbabe · 15/08/2022 16:03

CredibilityProblem · 15/08/2022 16:00

I agree that I can't see it in black and white that he can't apply.

I guess if you had a written rent agreement, bank statements showing the rent he's paid you for the last three years, and evidence that that's the same as the market house share rent, bills and food would have been in your area throughout that time then it's theoretically possible. I still don't think it would be allowed.

Indeed.

As people could do all that and then give their kid back the money at the end, but ensure maximum student loans. Easy cheat if allowed.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:03

CredibilityProblem · 15/08/2022 16:00

I agree that I can't see it in black and white that he can't apply.

I guess if you had a written rent agreement, bank statements showing the rent he's paid you for the last three years, and evidence that that's the same as the market house share rent, bills and food would have been in your area throughout that time then it's theoretically possible. I still don't think it would be allowed.

But how does he get a black and white answer?. It will be what it will be, but he needs to apply one way or the other.

OP posts:
Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:04

burnoutbabe · 15/08/2022 16:03

Indeed.

As people could do all that and then give their kid back the money at the end, but ensure maximum student loans. Easy cheat if allowed.

Show quote history

Only they have actually worked full time for 3 years...And either way it's only loans.

OP posts:
Aberration · 15/08/2022 16:04

Honestly I think it’s really clear. It’s aimed at people who moved out, married, have been in care or are totally estranged. Not eighteen year olds who’ve had jobs whilst paying £100 a week towards their keep.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:07

Aberration · 15/08/2022 16:04

Honestly I think it’s really clear. It’s aimed at people who moved out, married, have been in care or are totally estranged. Not eighteen year olds who’ve had jobs whilst paying £100 a week towards their keep.

Worked and paid their taxes, which I assume is where the "benefit" of being independent comes from

OP posts:
JacquelineCarlyle · 15/08/2022 16:12

Surely if he has worked and paid tax, then his P60 from the last 3 years could be used as proof of his independence?

He could have been sleeping on friends floors or any other combination of living arrangements, but he's financially independent as he's a bona fide taxpayer (which the P60 would prove). That would be my assumption anyway & would be the route I'd take for the application.

Don't overthink it. Let the person judging the application decide.

Blueskythinking123 · 15/08/2022 16:12

It is as @Aberration says. The DC needs to have lived independently from their parents prior to applying. This means living away from home and paying all the costs associated with being fully independent.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:19

JacquelineCarlyle · 15/08/2022 16:12

Surely if he has worked and paid tax, then his P60 from the last 3 years could be used as proof of his independence?

He could have been sleeping on friends floors or any other combination of living arrangements, but he's financially independent as he's a bona fide taxpayer (which the P60 would prove). That would be my assumption anyway & would be the route I'd take for the application.

Don't overthink it. Let the person judging the application decide.

Yes, and that's how it reads to me. As with PP, I'd have expected it to mean they'd lived independently away from home, but what the .gov website says is:

"You’ve supported yourself for at least 3 years before the start of your course. This includes any time you:
-were in paid, full-time employment
-received Income Support, Jobseeker’s Allowance or other state benefits
-received any pension, allowance or other benefit because of a disability or by any reason of confinement, sickness or illness
-received training under any scheme for the unemployed or other funding by any state authority or agency

If you’re applying as an independent student because you’ve supported yourself for 3 years or more, you must provide evidence to show a reasonable level of income to live off. If you’ve been working or claiming benefits you must provide written confirmation of this.
You could send photocopies of your P60 or a letter from your employer (signed, dated and on headed paper) confirming the dates you worked there and your earnings.

My uncertainty is that I don't know what "a reasonable level of income to live off" means.

OP posts:
Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:23

Blueskythinking123 · 15/08/2022 16:12

It is as @Aberration says. The DC needs to have lived independently from their parents prior to applying. This means living away from home and paying all the costs associated with being fully independent.

I know people keep asserting that and I'd agree intuitively, but it doesn't say that anywhere in the guidance.

OP posts:
CredibilityProblem · 15/08/2022 16:26

Maybe Jacqueline Carlyle is right: ignore where he in fact lived and concentrate on whether he could theoretically have afforded to support himself from 3 years ago. Research the going rate for house shares bills inclusive in your area and demonstrate that he could have afforded that plus food, clothing and toiletries allowance at all times.

JacquelineCarlyle · 15/08/2022 16:28

I don't know what a 'reasonable level to live off' means either, especially as these days people are often entitled to benefits to top up their wages to a level they can actually live off!

I'd assume if he's working full time and earning minimum wage or above, then that's a reasonable level. What's reasonable for a single adult male with no dependents is surely different to someone who has children who they also need to provide for. He could easily be living in a bed sit, house share, sleeping on a friends floor and eating beans on toast every night to ensure he has enough money to live. Not sure how anyone can judge a 'reasonable level'.

Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:31

CredibilityProblem · 15/08/2022 16:26

Maybe Jacqueline Carlyle is right: ignore where he in fact lived and concentrate on whether he could theoretically have afforded to support himself from 3 years ago. Research the going rate for house shares bills inclusive in your area and demonstrate that he could have afforded that plus food, clothing and toiletries allowance at all times.

It wouldn't be any fun living on his salary, but it could be done in a house share, if you had to. It's a lot more than the student maintenance loan.

OP posts:
Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:32

JacquelineCarlyle · 15/08/2022 16:28

I don't know what a 'reasonable level to live off' means either, especially as these days people are often entitled to benefits to top up their wages to a level they can actually live off!

I'd assume if he's working full time and earning minimum wage or above, then that's a reasonable level. What's reasonable for a single adult male with no dependents is surely different to someone who has children who they also need to provide for. He could easily be living in a bed sit, house share, sleeping on a friends floor and eating beans on toast every night to ensure he has enough money to live. Not sure how anyone can judge a 'reasonable level'.

Exactly! People responded to me like I was completely unreasonable, but it's not clear?

OP posts:
Original poster
PerfectRun · 15/08/2022 16:33

Yes, he's earning well over minimum wage and has since day 1.

OP posts:
gogohmm · 15/08/2022 16:40

Dd wasn't even at 22. Working doesn't count you need to be living independently or over a certain age