19yo with decent GCSEs but no more now thinking of University

[ApplyEvenly]

DS2 has had a shocking three years. Lockdown was horrible for him, but he's had other things to deal with too, including a real tragedy.

Anyway he got pretty good GCSEs, including maths at grade 8, but hasn't achieved any qualifications since. He's been working, but not particularly successfully, which even if I'm biased, is understandable in his circumstances.

He's now considering Uni, possibly to do maths and we're struggling to understand the routes open to him.

It seems there's nowhere to do Alevels locally F2F, the local FE colleges aren't offering them and schools/6th colleges obviously won't take a 19yo. (He'll be 20 next academic year). He could do Alevels via one of many distance learning providers, but I'm not sure how good this would be for him. He really needs a reason to get up and out and see some people. Also 3 Alevels by distance learning seems a big ask to me, although I suppose he would work at least PT to get him out a bit.

Or access courses, but I'm not sure if Universities like them as much as Alevels, especially for a young person? Plus there doesn't seem to be anything suitable locally (our local college only offers things like child studies and public service) so we'd be looking at living away or distance learning.

What would you recommend? What do "children" who have second thoughts about not doing 6th form do?

He's capable in that he knows how, but I'm not sure it would be good for atm, no.

Degree apprenticeships have really high Alevel entry requirements

A friends son walked out of his GCSEs. Didn't do any of them.
She had money though, and after a break he did an excelerated one year course as a boarder as no school near him. This worked very well - he got away from the bullies, he was in an environment that was focussed and did well on his exams. He is now doing his A levels there. It doesn't matter that he is older by a year or two.
But of course boarding costs money.

If your DS waits until he's 21 he might be able to gain entry as a mature student. This changes the entry criteria and makes A-levels less important. He will need English and maths GCSEs though. It sounds like he has got these so it might be worth exploring entry as a mature student.
Good luck to your DS

www.ucas.com/undergraduate/applying-university/mature-undergraduate-students

I really highly doubt a maths degree would accept an access course.

He could do A Levels online but that would be very isolating and challenging. Particularly doing maths and (maybe further maths?), a lot of time would be required for studying so a part time job wouldn't be priority.

Is there anything else he could look into doing that's fairly maths related via access course? Accountancy etc?

Hi, I’m glad your son is looking to the future. Tbh, I haven’t read through the entire thread so I apologise if this has already been said. Are there any universities that do a foundation year in maths? That way he would be with a group of others and getting that Uni experience. Then he could transfer to a full degree either at the same Uni or a different one.

Alternatively, if he doesn’t mind being with random aged adults, there are several coding courses that are typically offered in big cities. If he’s good at maths then he may well like coding. Get him to try some free apps to see if he likes it. He could build a glittering career this way without the cost of university. Coding is more vocational than maths. Good luck!

It may not be an option/I don’t know enough about it, but there are some residential colleges that offer A Levels. Could that be something to look at? Hartpury is one that springs to mind - is a college and university in one.

Yes, there are loads, but they seem to be for people who got disappointing Alevel results rather than those without Alevels at all?

Accountancy is nothing like Mathematics?

I would pick unis that have a foundation year and give them a call and ask what they would accept in his situation. He will probably be 21 when he applies so that might change things too. I know someone who did a foundation year which fed into a degree in maths, chemistry, physics or engineering. They essentially did maths a level and chemistry and physics in a year. my friend had good alevels but I’m arts subjects and wanted do maths. So you’re right, he wouldn’t get straight onto it but maybe the requirements would be lower so he could get there quicker?

If there's nothing locally I think OU may be your best bet - or very least talking to their advisors - learn1.open.ac.uk/course/view.php?id=100193&cmid=22370.

I haven't studied maths with them - but have other things and the resources provided were usually excellent and my courses also had optional tutorials as well.

Where we are they can go to the college there's part and full time courses - and I had a housemate who'd got to university as slightly older student who studied for A-levels p/t - but if you're in an area that's not on offer it is massively limiting .

Agree with PP - OU maths degree would be a good bet. They are supportive of people with ‘life’ issues (for lack of a better word).
They are well regarded with employers as they take a lot of self discipline. Plus he can stay at home and the loan is slightly cheaper.

It would be worth speaking to some universities. I had 3 GCSEs at C and above (English, maths, biology) and 1 A-Level equivalent at a grade B and was accepted onto 7 different courses (I kept my options wide open!). Speak to the unis, see how lenient they can be for students in different situations. He might not get onto the maths course but could get onto something that he could then do maths at postgrad

Tagging @poetryandwine who may be able to offer further advice. Hope that's ok!

I would suggest working backwards. Find some universities and courses he’s interested in and contact those unis to see how he can get in. All the routes mentioned here - access, foundation year, OU modules are all viable options but not for every uni as they’re all different. For example in mine as he has extenuating circumstances, we’d probably look at his current qual and work he’s done and if it’s of a good enough standard, offer a direct entry into foundation year - but we wouldn’t really accept OU modules

OU would be worth contacting for advice and looking at their level one maths modules. I would add that some universities do not accept their level one modules, other than as evidence of study however that would vary depending on courses.

A good maths tutor, even just once a week, if he/you can afford it, could be transformative. It would help him to get back into maths and give some structure to his learning. I don’t see why he couldn’t do A-level maths and FM as an independent candidate in the coming year with a tutor who has some experience of this scenario. If you can find someone who he could get out the house to see in person, that would be ideal. (Discord is good for online study group buddies too but wouldn’t be enough on its own.)

I think at 19 your DS is far too young to rein in hopes and give up on his dream of studying maths.

Please tell him to have a look at the Maths Sorcerer on YouTube who talks about the psychological aspects of studying a challenging subject like maths. The biggest hurdle can be believing you can do it after experiencing difficulties/setbacks. The Maths Sorcerer dropped out of high school but eventually found his way to maths and - after some twists and turns along the way - became a college maths teacher.

I’m glad @titchy tagged me, but it remains to be seen how much help I can offer.

First, I agree that your DS should definitely not give up hope. I think something will work out, but it may involve a detour. You have a variety of good ideas above and different ones will suit different universities, so I agree that checking with a few places he is interested in before deciding on his plan is sensible. If it takes an extra year or even two, that still isn’t much in terms of his whole life. I know it might seem otherwise to him.

In contacting the admissions team, your DS should use a light touch: I will be a mature student. I currently have Grade 8 in GCSE maths and …..(further qualifications outlined). What is the most efficient way for me to bring myself up to the standard for your School, bearing in mind that I lost time owing to a false start during the pandemic? No need for detail at this stage, including anything that could make a tutor wonder (however wrongly) if he is up to studying or is the type to blame others for his problems. Many young people had both resource problems and MH problems during the pandemic. It should be fine.

Now to the subject. Maths might be right for your DS. But GCSE Maths doesn’t really give any sense of what university Maths is about; also, your DS obviously has some interest in Engineering. I am wondering whether a degree in Mechanical Engineering, which is highly mathematical in a more applied way, would appeal to him. Employment prospects for engineers are outstanding, the career is interesting, pay is excellent, etc.

Uni maths is so abstract that your DS just can’t know yet what he will think of it. Employment prospects are also good but not as good as for engineers, aside from the few superstars who survive the very, very competitive recruiting process into the world of high finance. I think your DS sounds like he can do fine, but like the vast majority he doesn’t sound like an obvious superstar of finance. (That’s not a bad thing - not all the required traits are nice ones.)

I am the DD of a mechanical engineer and the DW of a mathematician so I am neutral! These are both highly valuable and interesting disciplines. From what you have said, my hunch is that perhaps your DS is a bit more of a (highly mathematical) mechanical engineer than just a straight mathematician. Good luck to him

Open university?

I've started a maths degree with them and I only had O Level. The first unit is a mix of GCSE and A Level.

He doesn't have to do the full degree with them, he could transfer to a brick uni at some point.

www.open.ac.uk/courses/maths

Birmingham uni offers a foundation year for students without A Levels that allows entry to their maths degrees. Maybe other unis do too?

www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/maths/mathematics.aspx?OpenSection=HowToApply#EntryRequirementsTab

I think both of @sashh’s ideas look good. I have a lot of respect for the OU. My only concern is, what if you decide Maths is the wrong subject? Do you have the qualifications to swap to a related field?

I have known OU to work for a number of students and the employment prospects are roughly equivalent to traditional universities.

This any good?
www.open.ac.uk/courses/modules/y033

I think his first step is to salvage what he is doing now - that would also give him a focus.
As others have said meeting with the college to so you both have a clear understanding of the situation.
Does he really want to do Maths or is it the fresh start he wants?

I second the idea of a PP about coding courses - I know of a couple of people who decided to switch careers from arts based jobs into coding, and they did courses that were anywhere from a few months to a year long, partly in person and partly remote, so it could be a good compromise for him. There seems to be a real mix of people on the courses, different ages and backgrounds, and I don't think they have traditional entry requirements in quite the same way, as they take such a mix of people. I think (but I'm not sure) that they do some sort of trial unit, where you see how well you do with that type of course/subject/teaching, and then that determines whether you get onto the course. It probably costs quite a lot, but he might be able to do it while he works part-time as well. The people I know seem to have got decent jobs out of it - mostly website design and management, but they're making a lot more money than they did as musicians or whatever (well they are doing music as their part-time jobs and coding for the money side!).

But beyond that, if it's definiteliy maths he wants, i'd also investigate the unis that he might want to do to, and ask specifically what they'd recommend for him, as otherwise you're always second guessing. Whether it's a foundation course or a degree, ask them what they are likely to accept.

He could do remote A-levels, but not necessarily all three at once. He's going to be a mature student anyway, so taking a little longer over them might not matter. Or maybe there is a boarding school type arrangement where he could do them in person. An access course or a new apprenticeship where he is motivated from the start might get him some alternative qualifications if he can't find a way to do A-levels in a group situation.