How do you go about accessing University as a mature(ish) student?

[Smartsub]

Who only has GCSEs?

DS2 is 19yo. Left school three years ago with decent GCSEs including maths at grade 8.

He gained a good level 4 apprenticeship which he was initially enjoying, then lockdown happened and he was wfh, then his dad became terminally ill, was in a very bad way at home while DS2 was supposed to be wfh in the next room, then DH died.

DS hasn't coped, he hasn't done what he should have at work or college, is unlikely to get the qualifications he should at the end of this year, may not be kept on, but even if he is, wants to leave anyway. The company have tried to help, but DS is in a very dark place and isn't responding. Boss has suggested he takes some time off sick, which he will do.

Anyway he's asking about the possibility of going back to FT education. That would be a bad idea now, if he can't apply himself at work, it's unlikely to happen at Uni, but to give him something to work towards, what does he need to aim for?

Alevels? How do you do them as an adult? Or is there another way?

You've misread my post. It was in response to a PP who suggested a lower tariff degree course might avoid the need for an access course. He's not looking at Oxbridge!

I was going to suggest an access course (that's what I did, without a single qualification!) but see that they don't offer appropriate options locally. I think a foundation year sounds the best option. You don't necessarily need A levels. Look into what's available locally and he can transfer to a better university.

Universities are surprisingly good at diversity/widening access these days. It sounds terrible to say this because he (and you - I'm so sorry for your loss) have clearly gone through a horrendous time, but your son is exactly the kind of person they will be open to accepting.

For context, I dropped out of school at 14 and spent several years in squats and warehouse jobs. I did an access course which was only pass/fail so the universities had literally nothing to base my academic ability on. I still got places at Bristol and Bath (only two I applied for) - I assume as a result of my back story which I touched on in my personal statement.

How about something like this?

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/2022/foundation-stem/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=rh-stem-foundation-degree-mature-paidsearch&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4N-Tn_qJ-AIVxY1oCR1azAUfEAAYASAAEgK15fD_BwE

But you’re harping on about how to know if it’s a “good” Access course. They’re the same curriculum across the board, just like A Levels.

They’re not some hack qualification. They’re there to help adults, who did the wrong subject A Levels, or didn’t manage to do any A Levels at all, a way into University, that only takes one academic year rather than two, and ensures they can maintain a job to pay living expenses whilst doing so.

We were all strongly advised NOT to apply to the top Universities, but we ignored that advice, being as there’s a choice of 5 on the UCAS forms.

Yes, the offers came with the condition of straight Distinctions, and only 3 of us managed that, yet the others were still allowed to attend anyway, and we’ve all done really well.

Not a single one of us went into it with the mindset of only accepting Oxbridge or RG Universities.

Most of us had to stay local anyway for a variety of reasons, we’re just fortunate that there is an RG Uni and a Top 20 Uni in our City, 2 other RG Unis within an hours drive and a handful more of the Top 30 Unis within an hours drive. There are also a bunch of terribly rated Unis nearby.

I got 3 conditional offers from RGs and two unconditionals from the Top 20 Uni and one of the Top 30s. Never in my wildest dreams could I have hoped for that; I was aiming for 2 offers so I could have a Firm and a Back Up in case I fucked up my exams.

Harping on? I'm just interested to know how to make sure any course will get him what he needs.

Fuck me, we've lost his dad, his dream apprenticeship is about to end in disaster, the boy can barely get out of bed, I asked for a bit of help and....

I did this. If you look at the uni directly and look at their lifelong learning or mature students section you can see what their entry requirements are.

You don't always have to do an access course or A Levels, I didn't have to because I'd part completed some level 3 study they said I'd demonstrated an ability to work at that level and that was enough. But this was a few years ago.

Either way he should get on their websites or just phone up and ask.

I went to Warwick BTW. Warwick is good for maths. Just contact them. Sometimes the mature student route is separate to UCAS.

Thats why I suggested he contact one of his preferred unis. Maths is a subject for which continuity is generally preferred, some unis don't like gap years for example, so the admissions tutor may have guidance to share.

Access courses are designed for this scenario. My DS is finishing one at the moment. He did Access to Computing which was quite Mathsy. The three days a week timetable suited him as he had been stuck at home "stuck" for several years and needed to g used to being in a busy environment.
There does seem to be differing levels of Access courses at FE colleges, its worth checking the listed destinations of the students, some courses have reciprical arrangements with particular unis or you can complete an HNC/HND and then go straight into 2nd year of a degree. Its quite modular.
My DS is starting a degree next term aged 23!

Im not sure they'd count a 19 year old as a mature student though, In Scotland you count as a "young student" until 25 (this is for funding, it might be different for applications).

I wouldn't either but the system seems to.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way OP.

There are no good/bad access courses, and no specific access courses for specific Universities. There isn't an "Access course for Birmingham" and an "Access course for Manchester" running in the same building at different times. It's just another qualification which you can use to apply to university, like A-levels or Scottish Highers.

So you or your son contacts your local College - the place which offers BTecs and NVQs and the rest of it - and asks about enrolling for September. Then he applies through UCAS in teh same way as anyone else - except his "qualification" is the Access Course rather than the A-levels or whatever.

Yes, I appreciate that, thank you. That's why I was asking, I have no experience of anything other than the Alevel route.

Our local college offers 5 access courses though. None of them remotely maths based.

But you’re harping on about how to know if it’s a “good” Access course. They’re the same curriculum across the board, just like A Levels.

She just wants to know how well delivered they are. What's the problem with that?

Access to computing is a good shout actually if your college does that?

Alternatively as I said a couple of OU modules, or get in touch with some unis and see if they have some sort of exam or interview given that he's doing degree level questions now.

He'll count (England and Wales) as mature from age 21 btw and unis may be more relaxed about entry quals then - particularly given the circumstances, for which . But he will need to demonstrate maths ability.

I find it very hard to get any good advice from colleges (or schools actually). They're all basically wanting to sell their courses, even if not the best fit for the student.

19 is a mature student here - plenty on my access course were around that age. I was only 22.

@Smartsub did you check out the link I added above for the Bristol STEM foundation course? Something like that could be ideal for your son - doesn't require any qualifications and guarantees a place on a degree course (including for maths) if you pass. I'm sure other universities will have similar (I can vouch for Bristol though!)

Yes, thank you. It's like saying all schools are the same because they all do GCSEs

Access course?

I went back in my mid-20s, no A Levels (abysmally flunked AS Levels due to pretty severe depression & chaotic life circumstances).

I went to Birkbeck & did a Certificate of Higher Education. You can get student finance as its the equivalent of the first year of a degree (Level 4), and it was evening classes so I could continue working.

I had classmates from 18/19 year old who'd missed out on college (health reasons, family circumstances etc) to career changes in their 40s and 50s.

My course was science based (Life sciences for subjects allied to medicine - we did chemistry, biology and a bit of maths).

I'd really recommend it if you are within a couple hours train ride of London. He'd get access to the University of London Student Union and be able to have at least some of the student social life too. I was juggling with a full time job so just went to lectures, but some of the younger crowd definitely made the most of the social life as well as the studying!

I got v high marks so was able to go straight into the 2nd year of a BSc in Biomed afterwards. Many of my cohort went into first year of courses at more prestigious unis (KCL, UCL etc) though; I continued as an evening student around work, so Birkbeck worked well for me.

I'm now on the Civil Service Fast Stream, training as an accountant (well, technically - I'm currently on maternity leave 😅).

That Bristol course looks perfect OP!

He can still enroll at a college and do A-levels, I know people who did that older than your son is. Might need to pay though? But it is worth talking to a college as I've read that between 19-23 there seems to be some circumstances under which they will still be free - getting first level 3 qualification for instance- and as your son does't have any A-levels yet, and has mitigating personal circumstances, it is surely worth checking.

There is this www.gov.uk/advanced-learner-loan - loans for this purpose from the govt.

Maths is one of the few STEM course you can do online as no lab or field component, a lot of places offer it, you usually have to arrange your own exams and pay those fees, which means college can be a simpler option.

It's harder to do Access for maths from what I can tell. Not as many places offer it. Glasgow offer an online access where you do two subjects www.gla.ac.uk/study/short/accesscourses/ - I started with Maths and Biology but was unable to complete for personal reasons, however it was well taught, live online classes, proper feedback etc. No funding for it if you're not in Scotland but the total cost is only £580, I don't know your finances of course. It's not part of the same framework as the English Access Diplomas so there's no automatic progression to any uni except Glasgow, but it covers similar ground - I only mention it because for me, finding a decent Maths access was impossible. When applying as mature student he may well be able to get other unis to recognise it as equivalent.

Do you think that the longer process of an A-level would suit him or a shorter course like Access?

I'm really sorry things have been so hard for him and you.

It us tricky actually, a lot more complicated than understanding school exams. I found it hard to advise DS at first as my knowledge of FE was very out of date and I was a bit predudiced against the non "school" qualifications, I was hung up on him going back and redoing what he messed up at school.
I also did not like the lack of choice and lack of the perfect course in the perfect location (only really one that would do).
In the end I came to view it as a means to an end rather than an exciting educational experience and the access course format with end of module tests rather than one big exam gave DS confidence.
I think more research is needed about what is available in a reasonable radius of your home and the different formats and abandonment of any ore conceived ideas (like I had)
Maths is one of the better subjects for doing online I would think if all else fails

Access to HE courses are tailored to the type of degree you wish to go on to do at university. If you do a public services Access to HE course then you'll likely go on to do a degree in criminology (for example). You will not be able to study a nursing degree off the back of it. What is it that your son wants to study at university? Once he has a rough idea about that, you can start looking at the right access course for him.

I did a social sciences access to HE which included English Literature, Sociology, Psychology and History subjects. I then went on to do a degree in English Literature. Not all universities accept Access to HE courses either, and some will stipulate a certain number of Access to HE credits have to be in a particular subject(s) in order to show enough foundation knowledge to start their university course. It's worth checking out the university he is interested in attending to see what their entry requirements are and whether they accept the Access to HE qualification.

Lastly, most Access to HE courses require a minimum of English and Maths GCSE in level 4/C or above, and sometimes Science too depending on the course. Hope that helps.

Yes, thank you that does look fab and actually, since I shared it with him is the closest he's seemed to excited in months. Thank you.

Has your son received any qualifications or credits at the end of each year her has completed on his apprenticeship.
Level 4 is equivalent to the first year of a degree so if he doesn't pass at level 4 would there be enough credits for a level 3 Pass or did he achieve that at the end of last year.
My OH was able to use credits from an apprenticeship to be accepted onto a degree course. But we are talking about one of the "better" 1992 universities rather than RG.
I wouldn't discount the newer Unis. The RG label is really about research whereas the newer unis can have better ratings for teaching and the overall student experience.

There will be some credits, he should have got level 3 at the end of this year, but it seems likely that he has too many gaps to achieve that now.