Would you pay for private education when there is a very good state alternative?

[alfiesbabe]

I know this is a contentious issue, but am really interested to hear other people's views. Our situation: have just moved DS (Yr 9)from private to local state school. (His choice). He had been on a scholarship as a chorister, and finished in the choir, but money wasn't an issue as DH teaches in the private school so we paid peanuts for fees. DS is really happy and likes the wider range of students. He is in top sets for most subjects and reports back that the work is more challenging and behaviour better than was the case in his previous class. He gets less homework, but to my mind what he does get is more relevant (eg in maths he might get set 5 questions to test that he has understood a teaching point, whereas at the private school he'd be set several pages of the same type of question). Results wise, the private school had 85% 5 A-C passes, the state school had 72%. Bearing in mind the state school has the full ability range, whereas the private school is selective, this smacks to me of better teaching in the state school. It seems like a very small difference considering parents are paying about 12K a year for the private school. A-level results are similar - statistically the private school is a little better, but not by much. The private school offers more in the way of music and sport; but DS has gone as far as he wants with music for the moment and isnt bothered about sport. I'm not looking for validation of our choice - we know we've made the right decision - but I'm left with this feeling of 'What were we actually paying school fees for?' The experience as a chorister was valuable, but I can't get my head round parents who pay the full whack, specially if their child isnt musical or sporty. I'm aware that our local state school is outstanding and we're very lucky in this respect. So.... why WOULD anyone pay for private in this situation?

Its not good no. Is the answer therefore to pay to go to a better schl?

Look, don't want a row or bad feeling. One of those polarised issues with not much room for agreement. No I wouldn't pay. The schls round my way are just okay, boringly average. Its good enough for me.

'but you cannot get away from the fact that most Boards, MPs, even leading surgeons were private educated.'

yes but surely they all went to the top privates anyway. old boy's network and that.

i couldn't afford private fees so am stuck with the local comp, which round here always gets compared to the privates.

realistically though i would find money for private tuition if my child were struggling in a particular subject.

I have gone.... but the odd thing is that they all self select. All the families self selecting private education at 4 and 7 as opposed to the highly rated local state education are all people who I really don't get on with. Think they realise that they can't tough it out in the real world so go off to "f**k" up their kids in private

Now I have gone...

If I had the money then I would pay for private over a good state school. I would be looking for smaller class sizes, high quality extra curricular activites and no Key Stage 3 SATs. My dilemma (if anyone cares to angst with me or perhaps I should start another thread) is how much we should sacrifice for private school.

If I had the money then I would pay for private over a good state school. I would be looking for smaller class sizes, high quality extra curricular activites and no Key Stage 3 SATs. My dilemma (if anyone cares to angst with me or perhaps I should start another thread) is how much we should sacrifice for private school.

I think that it helps to at least be able to be honest about the situation. To say that the vast majority of children do very well at school is not reflected in the results. The OP's situation of having a state school with 72% of pupils getting good results is great, but is more the exception than the rule. Last year there were over 650 schools where less than 30% of pupils got those grades. And nationally less than half of all pupils got those grades.

No idea where seeker gets her "vast majority" facts from?

I've paid for private for DS1 where our local school (within walking distance) was considered a good school. But the private was exactly the right school for him - extremely academic and laid back. The pace of teaching was considerably faster and more thorough than the local school (which despite its reputation has great difficulties recruiting teachers, particularly for maths and science). It wouldn't have suited DS2 who is less academic and he went to the local school (with a bit of tuition on the side to make up for the fact that sometimes there was no maths teacher to teach maths, no specialist biology teacher etc). We wouldn't have paid out for DS1 if the school had the sort of results the OP's school had though - the local comprehensive has similar results.

May I just add something that might be relevant? I think anti-independent school feelings mellow as you get older. It is easy to think the state system is fine when your children are 5 or 6 and even 9 or 10. But when you can no longer fill in the educational gaps at home or don't have time to, you begin to trust the system less. Sorry but that is true. I have many friends who are very anti independent education while their children are very little but are very pleased with their child's independent school at 14.

Also, I think many people who went to and did well at comps (myself included) are over a certain age. The comps of 20 years ago is nothing like the ones of today.

oh well i'll tell that to my neices and nephews who have all recently started great courses in london after going to the comp.

these threads pee me off. so you can afford private/independent whatever. good for you.

the majority of us are stuck with the local comp. we can only try to support and improve them ourselves, rather than put them down constantly.

Thing is, for an awful lot of people, even middle-class people in good jobs, it comes down not to how much you trust the system or how good /bad the state comps are or anything like that - it comes down to whether you can afford it. Which is why I get heartily sick of the whole thing being spun as a "choice".

It's not a choice for most people. But a lot of people have made a lot of money in the last 10 years so private education has become possible for more people than it was previously.

I can't decide whether it's worth moving to a grotty area in order to pay for private education.

Gosh, interesting to see how this thread has developed. Have to say I really disagree with Xenia's view. The fact that most MPs were privately educated is a negative in my view! I have very little respect for the behaviour/life styles of many MPs and they certainly don't strike me as a generally happy bunch.The whole old boys network doesn't impress me at all, and is a point against private schools imo. People should get by in life on their own merits and ability, not because of where they happened to go to school.
NKF - I have some sympathy with the view that you are paying for smaller classes and better extra curricular activities. However, in the case of ds, he reached the point where he found the small classes limiting and stifling, so I suppose there's pros and cons.
I also agree with the view that there are advantages to being able to mix with people from a broader mix of society - as someone said, most of life doesnt take place in the exam room. The confidence that comes from knowing that you've got where you have on your own merit and not because you've been spoon fed through exams is also valuable.

A lot of people move specifically to be in line for a good school. They more intelligent and sensitive to education people are the more likely they are to make this move before or in the early years of primary education. But primary is east, the local/village school normally has much to recommend it and anything they fall short on you can normally patch up at home. Secondary is the important bit because you just can't fill in the gaps at home and their 15 year old peers with no aspirations whatsoever are not as charming as they were when they were 7. I think it was better when the state system was streamed.

east = easy

For sure there is a feeling that a ropy primary is better than a ropy secondary. So many people have no choice and that's a scandal.

Also, I know that classes can be too small. But the state ones are huge. Over 25 kids in secondary school. Too many. I will probably have to put up with it though and that makes me anxious.

I think it is a good idea to support the local schools. The reality is that there has been a lot of underinvestment, and there is no doubt that the existence of faith schools and private schools have undermined the state system.

Do you really think that, Q? I thought you were, like Xenia, totally commited to the private sector.

Yes I do really think that. In my ideal world schools would offer a good standard of education, with sets all the way through for different levels of ability to be stretched, and small class sizes and big libraries. Faith schools and private schools should both be abolished IMO.

Unfortunately that's not the world we actually live in so I guess I am finding my own way of dealing with reality.

Indeed, Quattrocento, and every single child would have his/her individual talents recognised and developed fully, and his/her weaknesses would receive special attention.

If you read this it helps to explain the ever widening gap between state and private education.

Stands to reason. Where was that feature about the two teachers? The one Xenia mentioned.

Only read Op so far.

I do pay for private school even though our catchement prinary school is good. We chose DD's school after visiting a few schools in both sectors and chose the school that we felt best suited DD and our crcumstances. She will, all being well, go onto the private secondary school too. Lots of reasons why we prefered our chosen school: small class sizes, lovely ethos, good wrap around care, lovely "family" feeling to it esp witht hings like dinner arrangements and pastoral side of things, good disciple, good range of non-academic stuff, and good results too. So far we are very pleased with our choice and have no regrets.