Would you pay for private education when there is a very good state alternative?

[alfiesbabe]

I know this is a contentious issue, but am really interested to hear other people's views. Our situation: have just moved DS (Yr 9)from private to local state school. (His choice). He had been on a scholarship as a chorister, and finished in the choir, but money wasn't an issue as DH teaches in the private school so we paid peanuts for fees. DS is really happy and likes the wider range of students. He is in top sets for most subjects and reports back that the work is more challenging and behaviour better than was the case in his previous class. He gets less homework, but to my mind what he does get is more relevant (eg in maths he might get set 5 questions to test that he has understood a teaching point, whereas at the private school he'd be set several pages of the same type of question). Results wise, the private school had 85% 5 A-C passes, the state school had 72%. Bearing in mind the state school has the full ability range, whereas the private school is selective, this smacks to me of better teaching in the state school. It seems like a very small difference considering parents are paying about 12K a year for the private school. A-level results are similar - statistically the private school is a little better, but not by much. The private school offers more in the way of music and sport; but DS has gone as far as he wants with music for the moment and isnt bothered about sport. I'm not looking for validation of our choice - we know we've made the right decision - but I'm left with this feeling of 'What were we actually paying school fees for?' The experience as a chorister was valuable, but I can't get my head round parents who pay the full whack, specially if their child isnt musical or sporty. I'm aware that our local state school is outstanding and we're very lucky in this respect. So.... why WOULD anyone pay for private in this situation?

Or even a hedge fund manager !!

In feminist terms it would be and she'd probably marry him (or her if she's lesbian) too. There are a few women who run hedge funds some very successfully indeed but nothing like enough. Too many women are too risk averse.

Seeker - I think there are quite a few independent schools that specialise in thick children.

I don't see why those of you in the small minority that pay for your childrens education
have to put down state schools to feel good about your choice-aren't you all confident and shiny enough to be gracious?
If the product of a private education is narrow mindedness and unoriginal thinking I think the money has been wasted

Of course those of us who pay think that what they are paying for is better for their child/ren. What do you want us to say, oh we thought the state school was better but we sent him there and paid £14,000 (from net earnings) per annum just for a laugh?

I've just read the whooooole of this long thread because its very much on my mind at the moment. My twin DS go to a very good state primary. But in a very middle class area and an unbelievable 85% (plus) go on to private secondary school each year.

We had always planned to be in the 15% - we both have ok jobs but just not enough money to afford fees for 2. State secondary schools not bad near us but not fantastic.

But in the last couple of months started to feel guilty about it. All other parents talking about their huge number of choices of private school whereas for my 2x DS its one school or nothing.

One of my sons is very academic and could potentially get a bit of a scholarship but his brother def wouldnt (tho he is very very gorgeous ). I just desperately want them to go to same school - being brothers is so importnat. And state v private is a lifestyle choice and i dont want them to grow up in different worlds.

Sorry - waffling. But anyway this thread has really helped to clarify my thoughts (i think - and i know that although we are in the minority at the current school - state is the right choice for us.

x

Kizzi - if you can't afford 2 lots of school fees and want them to go to the same school then there is no choice is there? What year are your twins in at their primary school?

No, but paying doesn't give you the right to be superior and arrogant

They are in yr 5.

I guess the choice comes in because DH not convinced that we shouldnt be sending very bright DS private school. He is worried that we are holding him back. Whereas I think that because he's bright then he'll be ok.

But then thats because I went to a really shit school and did ok.

I dont want to hold him back. I just want him to go to school with his brother - and not be the 'poor' kid in the posh school.

You can probably tell this has been a bit of a debate in our house (!)

(Its all come to a bit of a head because if we did want him to go private then need to start tutoring for entrance exams now)

Not sure private paying parents are superior and arrogant. We're lucky to have made career choices and had life chances which has enabled us to pay and usually what we get is better than within the state system.

On twins (I have twins as does my sister) we know twins where the girl goes to a different school and her brother is at school with my son (as it's just a boy's school). My sister's are sitting exams this month and she has the issue of whether she'd split them if one gets in somewhere the other doesn't. I don't believe it's right to pay for one child and not the other however but I don't think ti's wrong to part twins and my girls (who aren't twins) went to different secondary schools and felt they benefited from that (although it makes logistics harder for parents). Would I part my twins at 13+ when they move schools? Possibly. It would depend on their views at the time but hoping they will both go into the same school.

Some across that way Xenia

I have a friend who has six daughters, whom she sends to the same school(s).

She has non-identical twins, one of whom is significantly less bright than the other and who repeated a year at school (this is quite common in many countries) quite early on in her school career. So the twin daughters are not in the same year at school, and are unlikely ever to be.

I think this is hard on the twins, but nothing like as hard as actually separating them and putting them in different schools because they have different abilities. One state-one private would seem to me the height of cruelty - twins growing up in different worlds.

I wont post anymore on this thread after this message because im in danger of hijacking into a twins thread which im sure wasnt the aim of OP.

But very interesting to see the other thoughts on twins. My two have different friends but are very close.

My ideal is to give them the 'shared' childhood that will give them a lifetime of memories but not let them get so co-dependent that they cant cope without each other when they get to 18.

But then thats a whole new thread...........

x

I remember one who was sent (his choice) to a boys boarding school and his twin to a more academic day private school but I think they were split before GCSE or at 6th form not later.

Kizzie - Both my sons go to an acadmeically selective boys' school. We didn't get them tutored and they weren't tutored at their state primary. I reasoned that I wanted them to go because they were bright enough to go. Not because they had been tutored to pass the entrance exam. Most parents who send their children to a selective school run the risk that a younger sibling won't make the grade and will have to go elsewhere. With twins it must be even more difficult as they are so used to be together at primary school.

Swedes- did they not struggle with the reasoning questions which they arent prepared for at state primary? That would be my only reason for considering tutoring really. Because Id be very against tutoring a child to get into a school that they then couldnt cope with.

I ma very intersted in the sibling thing. I don't have twins, but two boys. The elder seems likely to be able to get into the only local selective (grammar)state school, the younger borderline. This is becuae the test is very specific, very narrow (only VR and NVR), and a lot of luck on how you perform on the day - as the elder reads voraciously he is very good on VR - the younger hates reading and reads less widely as a result.
Then independents are highly selective, BUT they test a wider range (VR, Enflish, Maths) and also interview, where DS2 would have an opporunity to show his USPs .
If we Dopted for S 1 go to the grammar school, and his younger brother failed the test and therefore went to an independent, we would effectively be penalising DS1, even tho' academically he has more potential then DS2. At some point this would become apparent to him, and would be divisive.
So we will send them both to Independents.
Will cost us more (double! ), but give them both the same opportunities, which as parent is the best we can do for them.

I bought two verbal reasoning books from the local bookshop. Most booksheps sell them.

Gosh, Xenia, a call centre? What a marvellous aspiration for my daughter. Let's hope she doesn't follow the path of her father, who has a beautiful Scottish accent, went to state school, got first class degree at very good univ, PhD at different very good univ, fellowship at one of your own favourite universities and now lectures at one where I would lay bets many of your daughters' friends either applied to or attends. Or heaven forfend her state-school educated mother from Liverpool who also managed an academic career... Where exactly do you think my daughter might "want to go" which would be so insanely shallow to reject her on the basis of having a Scottish accent?

God, that was a poncy post. Apologies, all - got a bit riled. Xenia, I think that your determination to stand up for women is laudable, and many of the points you make are interesting, but it seems incongruous that you are not prepared to accept that many other discriminations in society, such as discrimination by accent alone are also utterly unjust. For what it's worth, if I had a son I'd far rather he sounded like Eddie Mair than Prince Edward, even if it did limit his career choices somewhere...

If twins are not identical they are no more "alike" than any other two siblings. Being in the same class, school and having the same friends isn't always a benefit - surely? Surely you want them to become individuals - they are probably not going to go to University together so the break from one another is going to come at some point. Perhaps it is better at 11 when the other twin is there every evening for supper and at weekends rather than very suddenly at 18 when all they can remember is being hand in glove.

At my sons' school they always put twins in separate forms.

On the twins thing. Ignore me - I am only thinking aloud really. I don't have twins and don't have any close friends with twins so probably don't understand the twin bond.

It may well be unjust to discriminate on grounds of accent (or indeed obesity or ugliness) but it takes place so therefore anything we can do to help our children avoid that is surely all to the good.I am sure your husband has done very well although actually a lot of people don't really see academic salaries as being livable on... not if you want to afford school fees etc. Although thank goodness some people are prepared to live on those incomes otherwise no one would get taught at university. Had he gone to a private school he might have sought more money with the pros and cons that come with that perhaps.

No, actually, Xenia, he wouldn't have sought more money. And neither would I. He's great at his job, he loves it, and it makes him happy. Don't think a lucrative City job could make him a tenth as happy as the life he has now. I don't want to be wealthy. I think we're perfectly well off, I love where and how we live. And what I want for my daughter is to recognise and reject injustice, not to perpetuate the system by simply accepting that unfortunately that's how it is, and that you have to accept it to "get on". We think we're so lucky and privileged already! So maybe she doesn't get a horse or go ski-ing. Other than that, I can't see that much difference between the life she'll have and that of your children, to be honest.