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Original poster

If you have an interest in Education and particularly Science please read.....

75 replies

Beetroot · 09/01/2008 15:37

Can I ask for you help?

If you interested in Science and Education would you send an email to Jim Knight MP, Secretary of State for DSCF. ? or perhaps it might be good if you send to local MP and get them to contact the Jim Knight or ideally do both!!

A template for this email is below - obviously it would be perfect if you changed it slightly so that they are not all the same.

Dear

?I am aware that there has been a problem for a number of years with inspiring young people around the ages of 11-14 with science at school. This is having a knock on effect on numbers taking ?A? level science subject especially Maths and Physics and therefore in University and Industry uptake for Graduates. Please can you let me know what action the Govt is taking with support for specific projects to try to address this issue at this Key Stage 3 level. ?

Jim knight?s email is: [email protected]

Thank you for you time

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Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 16:24

xxxxx

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Tamum · 09/01/2008 16:36

I do care in general, very much, but as the system is so different here I can't very well email my MP, he'd think I was mad. I can at least bump this though

Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 16:48

Tamum - email your MP and Jim Knight - this is a problem across the board in Scotland and England

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Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 16:49

We need as many people to email as possible otherwise nothing will be done

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TellusMater · 09/01/2008 16:50

DO you have a specific project Beetroot?

Will email BTW...

Whizzz · 09/01/2008 16:52

I'm a TA in secondary & I must say the curriculum is very uninspiring ! Another problem I think is the lumping Physics, Chemisty & Biology together into a faceless 'Science' lesson. I will email

Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 16:54

tellus - yes we do - an educational roadshow that we are putting together. I can give you more information on it if you email on [email protected]

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Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 16:54

educational science roadshow

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Blandmum · 09/01/2008 16:54

It isn't taught as a 'faceless' science lesson. The double science GCSE is broken down into modules of Biology, Chemistry and physics.

If you want to argue that the current GCSE in science is poor I would agree (in all exam boards that I have seen) I'd agree with you. The separate science GCSEs in Biology , Chemistry and Physics are longer, but TBH no better.

Lots of waffly crap on 'ethics' withought giving the children the science to make a real educated ethical decission.

Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 16:57

MB - this is not a criticism of teachers - far from it. - this is an extention of the project that we have spoken in length about.

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Whizzz · 09/01/2008 16:59

Sorry martianbishop I was just talking from my own experience at my school. We seem to chop & change topics without the pupils maybe realising that they are actually doing Physics, Chemistry or Biology. My experience to date is only with the lower years (Yrs 7-9) so can't comment on the GCSE courses

Tamum · 09/01/2008 17:05

I don't know Beety- the curriculum is completely different here, and we have lots of science roadshows that go round schools in the city. There's quite a lot of funding from the Scottish Executive. I completely applaud what you're doing, but I can't email something that doesn't have anything to do with our MP and isn't necessarily true in Scotland.

Blandmum · 09/01/2008 17:08

I think the project is a great idea, a very positive step, but to be honest the problems in science education are based on the fact that the KS3 and KS4 curriculums (curricula??) are so very poor.

We are expected to cover large amounts of 'factoids' without having the time to actually get the children to understand the concepts, or even to be able to take on information and to actually think about things.

I know that at A level even the very best students cannot take information from one area and apply it to a second topic, they lack the ability to transfer skills and understanding. And from chats that I have with lots of different university accademics, this problem is still there at university.

We teach to the test. The kids arrive in year 7 wanting to be 'told' the answer. primary schools teach to the test, and I don't blame them, because of the pressure of the sats results.

We do the same at GCSE. And then we wonder why they can't actually think. We never teach them how. I teach children who when asked to look something up will automatically ask, 'What page is it on Miss?' . And these are not bad kids, they have just been trained to be passive recipients rather than active learners.

TellusMater · 09/01/2008 17:10

Agree with MB. The NC is general knowledge, not Science. And that is dull.

Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 17:12

Tamum

  1. this does not go round to schools.
2 dh is meeting a Scottish MP who is very interested in the project.

If you think the progect is good MB then do email - as we need as many as possible to get the government to sit up and take notice

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S1ur · 09/01/2008 17:16

DP's secondary has sstarted the '21st century science' course at his place and I think it is really interesting.

They recently had a genetics day where they extracted their own DNA (which they then wore in pendants around their necks)

...and held ethical discussions on selection within fetility treatment etc (which the A-level biology students role-played 'experts')

The kind of coursework they do is also ,ore relevant. I think this course much more based on creating the skills to interpret science in everyday life and be equipt to consider ethical issues such as potential dangers and or benefits of mobile phones or stem cell research.

Waffling now. My point... not all science in schools is crap at the moment.

Tamum · 09/01/2008 17:17

I understand that, Beety, but the issues are still different. Your email is about a drop in numbers of people taking A levels (not relevant, and I don't know if it's true of Highers) and addressing problems at KS3 (doesn't exist). I am supportive, honestly, but since I'm professionally involved, I can't send emails that don't relate to Scotland.

S1ur · 09/01/2008 17:20

Should add that at dp's school there is an enormous take up of A-levels! Perhaps different courses is a factor? Certainly gives a wider choice and more appropriate matching to students interests and abilities.

His school run four courses at KS4,
two kinds of 21st century science
btec and triple award

pointydog · 09/01/2008 17:25

If you're doing this (and I agree with tamum that it would have to be tailored for Scotland if the same problem exists in Scotland) then you should target a number of people, including Sec of State for Education & Whatever It Is in England (I am sketchy) plus the opposition MPs. You have more chance of your local MP and an oppostition MP taking this up on your behalf and asking a parliamentary question. (I am relating this to the Scottish parliamentary system and assuming it's pretty similar)

Blandmum · 09/01/2008 17:27

IMHO Science in the 21st centuary is one of the worst of the courses on offer! I tutor it to a friends child.

As a biology teacher I can tell you that much of the real science has been taken out and watered down. The Extracting DNA and putting it into a pendent is as symptom. Flash with little chance to explain to the children how the extraction works, or the structure of the molecule they have extracted.

We do a similarly bad, but slightly better course. We also have a huge take up for science. In the upper sixth we have over 40 children doing biology alone. We have 35 in the lower sixth doing biology.

But this is in spite of the courses, not because of them

TellusMater · 09/01/2008 17:30

How many do chemistry and physics MB. At my last school we had getting on for 40 doing Biology in my last year, but only 12 for physics and 7 for chemistry. If it hadn't been a science subject it would have been in danger of the chop...

Blandmum · 09/01/2008 17:34

We have around 30 doing Chemistry and well over 20 doing physics....enough for two classes.

TellusMater · 09/01/2008 17:40

Well done your colleagues - clearly mine were just dull - unlike the biology department .

Blandmum · 09/01/2008 17:52

We have some excpetional (female) Physics and chemistry staff, they are inspirational.

I feel a bit mean that I've semi hijacked the thread. Sorry betters!

But my point is a serious one. The KS3 and KS4 curricular are so poor, and so over full, that even if we could get to an inspirational, motivational road show, we don't have the time table time, to let the kids go

I have been contacted, via a collgue to see if I can trail some very motivational stuff.

I can't do it with KS3 or 4, because we don#t have the time. But I might be able to do it with the G and T outreach I do for primary schools.

If we want to put the science of the UK back on track, it will need a major rething of what we teacher them and why we teach it.

Original poster
Beetroot · 09/01/2008 18:05

Just to be clear. My understanding and research information is that there is a general problem in the UK with uptake of science at A or equivalent level. Indications are that the "turn off" happens during the transition between last year of primary and years 7,8,9 UK S1, S2 etc in Scotland.

The knock on effect is low entrance in science subjects at University and Industry having trouble recruiting good quality graduates from the lower numbers applying.

The project that we are talking about is mainly to try to address this problem. We realise that it is not everywhere and some schools have fantastic inspirational teachers and the students are inspired etc. We have spoken with a range of representatives from industry and govt and schools and at the last meeting with the Cons shadow minister for DUIS he suggested that I should try to get as many people as possible to "lobby" the secretary of state for DCSF Jim Knight and same for DUIS which will have the effect of them taking more notice.

We have been in touch with all shadow and local MPs and all are either asking PQs or writing to same minister and we are waiting to hear if Jim Knight will meet to discuss.

In Scotland PQs have been asked about science education and the Scottish Govt suggested that we contact Setpoint Scotland and Learning and teaching Scotland who are both interested in looking at the proposal for the project.

This is not about criticising GSCE but trying to find ways of both supporting teachers who have asked specifically for help and resources for teaching science subjects and providing an out of school experience for students (and public/parents etc) via a Nationwide roadshow showing exciting real life applications of science and technology with genuine links to current key Stage 3, S1 S2 etc.

I hope that helps. If you can please email as requested - this would be very much appreciated

I am happy to discuss this in more detail.

Many thanks

Beetroot's dh

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