What's the advantage of a 'prestigious' school nowadays

[velvetypudding]

I am trying to plan around the school fees for my dc and their prep has just advised us that our eldest can apply to any school they want to because they are bright enough to get in.

Back when I went to school in the dark ages, going to a certain school meant good results but now I am trying to work out the difference between a school like St Paul's or a school that is still a private school but not 'on the map' so to speak. I haven't seen the schools yet so maybe I will see with my own eyes at some point but I'm wondering because my dc a school that is renowned for being excellent with great facilities etc but tbh there's so much that doesn't actually happen when the shiny brochure said it would, the pool is shut half the time and the teaching is reasonable but not exactly amazing, I don't want to start on a huge fee journey again just to be disappointed. I do like our school but it's a slog paying out the fees and some of the senior schools really have some hefty fees to pay year on year so I'm wondering how much value I'll get for them.

If it is already a slog to pay fees then don't go to one that will overstretch you. However do look at the different schools and see which fits your child the best as until you go it may not always be the one you think it is. However a private school that is not on the map may be that for good reason. Why not look at good state options instead if the fees are an issue?

Fees aren't an issue to pay but I don't want to waste day and extra £££ pa if I don't have to and wanted to know what the difference was between some of the senior schools.

We've been to two preps the second being double the fees of the first.
The second one was obviously better in its facilities but since starting the overall academics are fairly poor and the facilities are not used as extensively as we thought. Therefore it feels a bit of a disappointment to have to pay more money for something you don't really get.

Wondering why some of the seniors are quite different in fees to others, what makes one worth x and one worth y if anyone has any opinions on whether it is completely worth it. Our prep is already at the top end of fees so it's not even that much more for the seniors, but I'm looking to not make the same 'mistake' again and be taken in by the PR of the schools.

Well there academic records are available for public scrutiny and should speak for themselves. I would expect any halfway decent private school to have good teaching and above average academic outcomes. Why on earth would you continue to pay large amounts of money to a school with ‘fairly poor’ academics???
I have to say that judging a school on its performance over the last 2 years, especially in regards to use of facilities, is perhaps a bit unfair. Many schools will not have been able to provide what they usually would due to covid guidance.
We picked our girls school because I Brad good results and we loved the ethos and feel of it. It just felt right. I knew they’d thrive there and that was what mattered. A clever child will do well anywhere so pick what feels right for him as a person.

You need to look at the school's academic record over the past few years, and the leavers' destinations.
Do they regularly send students to Oxbridge or top American universities?
The top school my grandson attends does these things, as well as having great facilities and he is thriving there.

It's so personal but in general it's partly down to your dc and their academic and other interests eg very sporty and into rugby might point you towards certain schools over others, really musical might point you in another direction, less academic might make it more appropriate for a different school and so on. I would suggest not over emphasising exam results or oxbridge entry to the exclusion of other factors because your child needs to be happy and fit into the schools ethos etc. location is probably the more important factor if a day school, travel time will eat into their leisure time, they could easily resent going so far to school as a teen.

My summary, look at the whole child, your family situation and see which schools fit you best, if it's a famous one, fine, if it's not it really won't affect their life chances. Many of the countries most successful people did not go to fancy schools, we only hear about the ones who did!

In my opinion, the biggest advantage is the connections you make at those schools. Then again, your DC could make the same connections at a prestigious university I guess.

I always think it’s about the school fitting the child. My husband went to a well known school (on scholarship) the whole it’s who you know etc didn’t really work for him as he didn’t really ‘fit’ in, doesn’t really have the school contacts etc He’d have been better to have gone to the less well known school (he also got a scholarship for) as it would have worked better with the extra curricular activities he would have enjoyed more. His Mum wanted the status more than what was right for him.

@Smartiepants79

Well there academic records are available for public scrutiny and should speak for themselves. I would expect any halfway decent private school to have good teaching and above average academic outcomes. Why on earth would you continue to pay large amounts of money to a school with ‘fairly poor’ academics??? I have to say that judging a school on its performance over the last 2 years, especially in regards to use of facilities, is perhaps a bit unfair. Many schools will not have been able to provide what they usually would due to covid guidance. We picked our girls school because I Brad good results and we loved the ethos and feel of it. It just felt right. I knew they’d thrive there and that was what mattered. A clever child will do well anywhere so pick what feels right for him as a person.

Also I'd be wary of the whole "how many they got into Oxbridge etc" in recent years as you probably know this is massively changing - the whole landscape of elite Uni offers not only looking at widening participation/contextual offers but also uni admissions not taking some private schools predictions quite as seriously as they used to.

I'd certainly not be paying for children to go to any of the schools listed here as assume Uni admissions won't be viewing their predicted grades seriously for some time:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6bf66e7c-85fd-11ec-9c9e-c5f8451b2970?shareToken=72e0994acff731e065208ef4acde3e9c

OP, I would like to know this too. My gut feeling is that a recognisable name helps open more doors for the DC, but then it's ultimately the university and course that matter doesn't it. I guess you could look for substantial differences in facilities - for eg, if one of my DC is interested in rugby, I would look for a school with the best results in rugby.

I agree with PP that 'oxbridge' is not that prestigious any more. I know several multiple A* students this year who didn't even bother applying to oxbridge. Numbers going to the US increasing though.

His Mum wanted the status more than what was right for him.
I think that's really unfair on parents - we do what we think is best for the children. It's really really hard to judge whether your DC will fit into a certain school or not, and it's easy to recognise problems in hindsight. Selecting a school based on a few visits is not easy at all!

I think the advantage is access and eligibility.
That's what you're paying for - Britain has a massive inequality gap and private schooling is a major driver.

Caveat- I have no evidence to support or corroborate this; it's just the impression I get!

Why do I pay the fees for when I'm not happy? I would happily move but moving home and schools is not easy and it's taken a while to see what's really going on due to covid and things like the pool shutting was less obvious in 2020 but now it's more obvious things are still not quite right.
Dc is going into year 5 in September and that's a little late in the day to change now. I may move youngest.
I am a bit more nervous because I felt like this school fitted my dc and I was wrong.

The slog of paying comes more from paying out and not seeing much benefit. eldest is bored at school and not stretched enough.

I agree that the chance of oxbridge seems pretty low if you go to private schools now but most of the seniors seem to be aiming more for Ivy League now so I suppose I'll research that a bit more.

Or just send to state school and stop propping up these corrupt institutions that claim charitable status and perpetuate the class system?

'Prestigious' schools indeed...it's 2022!

I'm curious which you count as prestigious schools. We are outside of London so I am not familiar with St Paul's etc. The schools we have seen have extensive facilities including golf courses, cricket centres, swimming pools etc etc. They feel more like upmarket country clubs than educational establishments...

I went to one of the schools which people call prestigious and know the name of. If anything, it’s a hindrance, as people make assumptions about me that are wrong. So I try hard not to let the conversation turn to schools, to avoid anyone asking me a direct question about where I went.

However. It was a fantastic experience. Mind opening, fantastic teaching. Hugely confidence building. Opened up opportunities to do music and drama that I wouldn’t otherwise have had. Made some very good friends. Learned to think and argue and get things wrong and try again. The fees paid for excellent teachers with time to really get to know and support their pupils. Also for a swimming pool, which was nice, but for me it was really about the people, not the facilities.

@WaterBottle123 I'm not asking about state.
@MrPickles73 I suppose more the older institutions with a good academic record. I'm sure there are some without the academic record too though but my dc needs more than what they're getting now and to give some credit to the prep they agree. The fees are high for some of these schools and I don't really want to send dc 'just because'. I want them to actually get a really good education.

I've heard some schools are even tweaking gcse choices in order to gain A's all round things like lowering 'harder' exams and only picking easier ones to ensure full A grades as much as possible, so league boards for things like exam results don't necessarily show the whole picture.

We've found looking for a senior school a total minefield. We were told our children could get in anywhere.
I'd be reluctant to saddle a son with the he social baggage that now goes with the name Eton / Harrow. I'm not sure it's as bad for the girls schools...
But certainly some schools have amazing facilities and charge £36k plus per year and the results are not that amazing. So you need to shop around and do your research.
DH is from London so has completely different reference points to me on what is / is not a prestigious school ...

If you are looking at London Day Schools the main advantage is a very clever peer group, great teaching, great extra curricular on site and no behavioral issues. You will not get that in the state system. The more prestigious the school (St Paul’s, Westminster) the cleverer the cohort. Might not suit all students. Some prefer to be a big fish in a smaller pond.
You get the same to an extent at the big name boarding schools. Global cachet, global catchment, etc.
Most families at lesser know boarding schools have a boarding need which trumps other considerations.

I think this is impossible to answer. Visit a variety of schools. Try to get under their skin. Visit more than once if necessary. Don’t be embarrassed about pointed questions. School fees are a big financial commitment. Personally, I think the networking advantages are almost nonexistent and the brand of the school on the CV is of no value. This is increasingly the case in the job world too, where efforts to cut out unconscious bias are resulting in the anonymising of information about a person’s name, age, gender and the university they attended. So choose the school for itself rather than an illusion of what prospects it might offer. Focus on where your child is likely to be happiest.

It’s hard. Pick based on ethos and holistic fit as long as there is academic value add. If your DC is very bright I’m going to go against the grain and say a school where a good proportion (10 percent or more) of the school is achieving top university entry is probably a safer bet in ensuring you’ll get the academic stretch you are aiming for.

Value add in teaching is hard to ascertain but even for independent schools you can look at progress scores between GCSEs and A-levels. The ISI reports also usually have some insight based on data on the ability of the cohort, if above average progress is being made so look at those reports closely.

@RandomThought96
No behavioural issues! I am laughing out loud at this. Did you not read the Everyone Is Invited testimonies?

The Everyone's Invited testimonies (which ended up naming huge numbers of schools, both state and private) were horrendous, obviously, but that's a totally separate thing from behaviour issues in the classroom. As someone with a child who went from a primary school with some quite serious behaviour problems (eg fairly regular class evacuations due to unmanageable behaviour), to a school where there is essentially zero disruption in the classroom, it makes for quite a difference in the learning environment.

@cantatata so sexting from class isn’t a behavioural issue? Or doing drugs during the school day? Or pinging bra straps of girls? You clearly didn’t do your homework properly if you don’t think they highlighted significant behavioural issues in London day schools - OFSTEAD thought otherwise!

To be honest, I think some of these things (sexting, drug use) are going to be a problem to some extent in certain groups of pupils at any school. We had problems with sexting in Year 6 at our state primary. One of the local state secondaries has a particular problem with county lines drug dealing. I know there are still going to be issues with sexual pressure and recreational drug use at private schools. I agree that you need to do your homework if you're lucky enough to be able to choose your children's school. You ask the questions, you go for the school whose ethos and approach most closely appeals to you, and you do your best as a parent to protect your children from as much as possible of the problems that inevitably still exist. I would still choose a school with very little classroom disruption; I'm well aware that's not the same as having no problems full stop. (NB my kids aren't at a London day school.)

Wondering why some of the seniors are quite different in fees to others

The ones in stately home style grounds need to pay for their upkeep; obviously there’s an element of that in the fees. That’s the big difference round here between the “town” and “country” schools; the town ones sell themselves on academics, the ones with space and grounds on facilities.

@cantatata
Agreed all schools have these issues. I was at a very prestigious boarding school and it was like a pharmacy! It was the London kids who supplied everything as they had good access to dealers - I was a country bumpkin and it was very eye opening. Generally the richer the school the more likely there is to be a very naughty side to it and the more expensive the drugs - or on the flip side in state schools the more deprived areas tend to have more difficulty with drugs and dealing etc. I often wonder from my experiences at boarding school about how the social elite and those who struggle most in society have similar behaviours. But somehow when a peer’s son gets caught with cocaine in his dorm it is ‘high jinks’! Or when he sexually harasses a girl in his own year it is ‘being an arse’ not sexual harassment. We use different language for the same misbehaviour depending on where on the social spectrum people sit!