Urgh school fees help me decide if to keep in with them

[violetlilacs]

Dc are at a prep. It infuriates me at least weekly. But I'm beginning to think this is all schools not just this one. This is the dc second school already and we had the same issues before.

I'm starting to look at secondary schools and the grind of paying fees is starting to show for me. I went pt as I felt in order to get the best out of the school I have to be around to help dc with their work and also to force them around to various swimming galas and other sports fixtures (live rurally)

Secondary, I'm not quite sure what happens with things like swimming galas etc I imagine I'm still the official chauffeur though. Secondary school are obviously more expensive. I will have to work more hours and would have to get a new job to achieve this. I absolutely love a lot of things about the private system and can't imagine the state putting up with me, typical Madame nuisance parent but at the same time Im not sure about committing to another full dose of fees to get dc through school.

Can anyone help me wade through if it's worth it, I do think prep has been utterly worth it, all the dc are so nice, The schools is just nice which is why I picked it, but I think the educational ie academics aren't superior to state at all. And I'm wondering if this is more important when you're sitting gcse/a levels than having a swimming pool in the school grounds

Anyway I need to pick the pros and cons.
Also some secondary schools are extortionate and some are cheaper how do I really tell what's good what's not. We pay almost £20k pa on prep so any suggestions of secondary schools that are cheaper but get good results would be gratefully received as we can move due to wfh.
TIA

I think there are schools that are disorganised and poor at communication in both sectors. I wouldn't find what you describe acceptable, whether I was paying directly or indirectly through taxes.

It's likely to come from the leadership. The fish rots from the Head!

So when you are evaluating secondaries, avoid ones where you don't meet the head or aren't impressed with them, ask all the detail about how e.g. sports fixtures work, talk to current parents if you can, and you can start a thread on here too.

None of the things you describe would happen at my dc school.
When you say struggling from prep to grammar, in what way? Socially or academically?
£20k for one child is a lot! None of the excellent privates near us charge anywhere near that. I would research the schools your looking at very carefully, see if you can find parents to talk to.
My main worry would be that resentment of paying may become resentment of the child.

@Christmas1988 I think it really depends on the schools. My kids’ private schools offer full bursaries to about 15 percent of the pupils. To qualify for a full bursary you need to have a household income below the average and so there is probably more economic diversity there than in our state secondary which had a tiny catchment filled with multi-million dollar houses.

It’s very difficult the generalise the pros and cons between state and private as both sectors have huge variations between schools.

Ultimately you have to decide based on your priorities/ what your kid needs and the actual local options available. No one can give general advice.

This sounds like a problem with your school rather than private schools in general.

@formalineadeline

Well, private schools don't offer anything special academically - their league table position is because they cream off the most advantaged children. They would have to do something fairly catastrophic not to automatically float to the top of tables.

The meaningful marker is the progress children make in a school, not the average end result.

What you pay for is the status and network. Some of which has rightly been diluted in terms of beneficial access to universities.

So if your priority is education and fees are pissing you off / stretching the budget, go back to state. You can always use the saved money to pay for targeted private tuition later on if you feel there are genuinely subjects where extra input is required.

Spot on!

@formalineadeline that’s not entirely true. Some independent schools are mediocre with no value add but many do progress students further than would have been anticipated based on their previous results. UCL has analysed the difference in outcomes for state and private school pupils at A-levels with the same GCSE results and private schools have better outcomes. I think it was limited to state school students who transfer to private for 6th form only and controlled for socioeconomic factors.

There are of course state schools with positive value-add scores too so again it comes down less to sector and more to the actual schools that you can choose from based on where you live.

@Christmas1988

It’s important in my opinion to grow up mixing with all sorts of different people from all walks of life. You say the children at the current school are ‘so nice’ it might be a shock going into real adult life when only mixed with ‘nice’ children.

There is a myth that going to state school teaches a child to ‘mix with all kinds of people.’ In my experience, quite the opposite is true.

At dd’s state school everyone was from the same background, and if you didn’t behave exactly like them, you got mocked and bullied. Aspiration was despised. Difference was hated. Everyone was white except for one black boy who was loudly bullied about his skin colour (and teacher did nothing).

Now dd is at private, there are children from several different ethnic backgrounds in her class and no racism. There are still special needs children, but they get the support they need, and so don’t disrupt and dominate the class (as happened in pur state school). There are some very rich families, but also some poor families who are there on free places. The vast majority are medium-income families who’ve sacrificed other things like holidays / new car / big house because they prioritise education.

My child is learning to mix with far more different types of people than she ever did at state school. She is also learning that bullies aren’t tolerated and that if someone is regularly horrible, we find out how to get rid of them. Which as a life lesson is fine with me.

@Smartiepants79 struggling socially. I have known people to send their dc and they have struggled to accept things like larger class sizes, less 'nice' facilities available.

I disagree with those thinking my dc are incapable of being amongst people of a different background. There are many many different backgrounds at my dc school. People who's grandparents are paying, people who have won money, people who have dc on bursaries, international dc that have all sorts of backgrounds, tbh it's pretty much the sort of demographic as in my work office so I'm quite confident my dc aren't missing out on being able to get on with most people.

I never resent my dc for me paying fees though. In the end it is my choice overall and I'll accept that.

DD went to a private selective prep to state secondary (grammar). She is so much happier and her state school is so much more responsive than the private and has more dedicated teachers. As others have said it isn’t always about state vs private but the specific schools.

At secondary there is more of an expectation that DCs will manage their own time, resources and getting to and from school etc so some of the anxieties you are experiencing OP may not exist at secondary unless there are SEN issues which the state often does well, at least they do at DD’s school.

I couldn’t afford secondary school fees and we thought about doing the grammar for five years and then explore private again for sixth forms. DD has chosen to stay on at her state school despite an offer from a top public sixth form and the money we put aside each year will either go towards a deposit or paying off Uni fees.

DN went to a top Uni from a comprehensive and thrived and found a lot of his privately educated peers were much less prepared and less independent but that was just one experience.

There is no private school that has more economic disparity than it's comprehensive school equivalent in London. The only state schools that come close to private schools with regards to socio economic disparities are Grammar schools(which takes a good amount of it's pupils from private preps) and partially selective/religious schools like London oratory,Camden girls, Dame Alice Owens et al.

In areas with multimillion pounds houses which there are very few if I might add, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of parents that own those homes actually do go private(or selective)which explains the not so low amount of pupils on PP in those areas.

formalineadeline:

"Well, private schools don't offer anything special academically - their league table position is because they cream off the most advantaged children. They would have to do something fairly catastrophic not to automatically float to the top of tables.

The meaningful marker is the progress children make in a school, not the average end result.

What you pay for is the status and network. Some of which has rightly been diluted in terms of beneficial access to universities.

So if your priority is education and fees are pissing you off / stretching the budget, go back to state. You can always use the saved money to pay for targeted private tuition later on if you feel there are genuinely subjects where extra input is required."

We've gone back to state after a disappointing experience at a supposedly very top school in London. Agree 100%

Elij00:
"There is no private school that has more economic disparity than it's comprehensive school equivalent in London. The only state schools that come close to private schools with regards to socio economic disparities are Grammar schools(which takes a good amount of it's pupils from private preps) and partially selective/religious schools like London oratory,Camden girls, Dame Alice Owens et al.

In areas with multimillion pounds houses which there are very few if I might add, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of parents that own those homes actually do go private(or selective)which explains the not so low amount of pupils on PP in those areas."

Disagree. We're in Wandsworth which is both well off and disadvantaged backgrounds and there is a lot of diversity in out state schools. Same with most inner London areas.

Also, v important point: some super, bright capable, talented children come from families from minority backgrounds. So many in our capital city, many will not be well off but will be doing incredibly well at school and setting themselves up for bright futures.
Unfortunately, advocates of private schools tend to not notice much beyond their circles and afraid to mix.