Bursary advice

[Katy55]

Hi
We desperately want our daughters to go to a specific prep school, we could afford (just) one set of fees but not 2. I have contacted the school again (we’ve previously been in contact and I am an ex pupil, I was honest a couple of years ago and said we couldn’t afford it) and asked about their bursary criteria and have a meeting with the headmaster next week. I’ve made it quite clear we wouldn’t be able to do it without a significant bursary. We are not very low income - £90k pa but with Max fees for 2 coming out at £37k pa there is no way we could ever afford it no matter how you do the sums. We do own our small house but with limited equity, we have no other assets or savings, no luxury cars or holidays. I feel like we’re ideal candidates especially as we have said we’ll pay for one but at the same time does my husbands income rule us out for a bursary? He obviously pays a huge amount of tax so any expendable that could go on school fees wouldnt ever cover 2 sets. I have really set up a small business so have some additional income but very small. Any advice or insight would be appreciated.

@minniebin

37k for 2 are pretty heavy prep fees.

Yes very hefty! South east so all very similar

My dd’s school only gives bursaries if you already have gained a scholarship, I.e you have proved you will be an asset to the school. On your salaries you’d be very lucky to get more than 10-20% I’d imagine (though may depend where you live -90k in the SE very different to other parts of the country) Having said that I know of 2 people on similar salaries to you who managed to get large bursaries with no scholarship at different schools. Depends how much they need bums on seats I think.

I do find it weird to ask for money off though just ‘because’ - I’d like a 50k car, but I can only afford 10k - does that mean the dealership should give me it for that? If it were that straightforward, wouldn’t everyone do it?

I'm a registrar at a prep school. We don't offer any bursaries to families with children in the pre-prep (ie Nursery to Year 2). We would offer a means tested bursary to families with a child in year 3 upwards.

All our bursary applications are sent to an external company for evaluating and they advise on the level of bursary a family would need.

The school then have to establish if we can afford to take on that family. We don't have an endless bursary pot.

5-20% bursaries are pretty doable however 30-50% are few and far between.

We offer two 95% bursaries for families who would really not be able to access private education.

We would expect both parents to be working and holidays to be forfeited. Likewise house renovations, new cars etc...

Yes very hefty! South east so all very similar

I think that's still quite hefty going off the London preps I know. Is it very popular?

£18k is about standard for the upper years of a traditional 3-13 prep- the type with boarding provision and Saturday school. The full fees are at that level at our 3-13 in the deep South West.

Fees at a 3-11 day school would be cheaper.

OP went to this school and dreams of her DDs going there, so I think we can assume it's an Enid Blyton type place like Cottesmore. I don't think you'd feel like that about a bog standard prep.

However, I don't think OP's life choices (two children, no current career) have facilitated the dream prep.

OP, you can only ask. But you are exactly the reason that I’m coming to the conclusion that private education is mis-spent money. What exactly is it about your time at that school that makes you so desperate to send your DD there? I don’t mean this unkindly, but it doesn’t appear to have given you the drive to enable you to send your own children. I’ve heard many parents say ‘I want them to have great experiences’ (at private school), which is all very well, but if those experiences only last 1 generation, really what’s the point? The result is people like the OP who will end up feeling guilty because she can’t give her own DC the same experiences as she had. You’d be far better keeping the money and giving your currently very young DD a hefty house deposit at 25, because if she goes on to be a nurse, police officer, social worker, teacher, small business owner……the list is long….I’m pretty sure they’d prefer a house deposit than dreamy memories of a school they’ll never be able to send their own children to. For context I’m privately educated and we can afford to send DC based on DH and my combined income……but I literally don’t know one other person who I or my siblings went to school with who can afford to send their own DC without significant help from grandparents, bursaries, employment discounts or inheritance. It’s the same at DCs school; there are very few parents who
pay full fees from hard earned cash.

We have about 64k combined income and were initially offered a 40% bursary which wasn’t enough. I turned it down (politely and gratefully!) and explained why. They upped it to 60% which we could just manage.
Your income is a lot higher but it’s worth a pop. There will be a LOT of forms to complete which are forensic.

We have a combined income of a little under yours, but that's with us both working full time. My DD just got an offer from a selective independent secondary with 25% scholarship and then they gave us another 40% in bursary so it's not impossible. But the thing is that a) this is secondary b) she is a big asset to their school. Her academic results were extremely high so 15% is an academic scholarship, and another 10% is because she is an excellent competitive swimmer and will be able to represent them in their school swim team. They need to see that the child will offer the school an advantage which is a bit difficult to tell at your DDs age.
She was also at an advantage for coming from a state primary as this particular award combo was for state educated children in a certain geographical region. You really may be best to stay in state and nurture her talents in and out of school - then look into indie secondary

We are in the south east and had a similar income, but I was working PT and we had 4. We were offered a 50% academic scholarship for #1 and no further fee assistance. We turned it down (because we couldn't do fees x4) and haven't regretted it - all 4 are at superselective grammars via state primary and flying.

As others have said, you need to think about the lifestyle you are buying in to. I knew we weren't going to be skiing 2x in the winter and flying long haul every summer, and we don't have ponies and swimming pools etc as many of these children do. Plus fees go up above inflation, uniform, extras etc etc. We spend the extra on huge amounts of out of school stuff and have nice holidays.....

DH and I were privately educated all the way through so I did feel guilty for a bit. But gave my head a wobble, they are doing brilliantly in the state system - if your state primary isn't working out, perhaps look at different ones, or get additional enrichment via tutors?!

A single earner, high salary family isn't the likeliest of candidates for a bursary.

Your second DC hadn't started school yet. They may well expect you to have started earning by then, so bursary will be unnecessary.

There is no way you'll get a bursary on the basis of being unwilling/unable to pay for 2 simultaneously when you have only one in the school.

They are highly unlikely to commit to a bursary now, when it is 2-3 years before your 2nd DC reaches school age.

Qualifying for bursary on a salary of £90k, even if it were combined income from two working parents, is also unlikely, as it is over the earnings threshold for many (I'd say most, and would want to say 'all', but sineine might turn up with a counter example)

Parent being a former pupil carries little to no weight.

You need to make some different choices if you want this school for your DC. I mean apply but, realistically, high earning families such as yours have to pay.

Many people have been priced out of private education. You're not in unusual circumstances.

You are however lucky - you can make different decisions if it really is your central dream. You need to put the business on hold and get back into the employment. You cannot afford both school fees and for you to bring in nothing. So get back into work now, and save as much of your pay as possible towards fees and other school costs (such as uniforms).

I've worked in admissions in a variety of prep and senior schools. In my experience bursaries tend to start from yr3. You very rarely get them at pre-prep.
The cap on household income is normally around £60-70k, anything above that is completely out. £30-60k is a sliding scale, under £30k might get 90-100%.

My advice is to seriously think about the conveyor belt you're about to try to step on. Let's imagine you reach some kind of financial arrangement with the school whereby you can just about manage to send both DCs. Don't forget fees tend to increase higher up the school. And of course annual increases can be anything from 4-12%. If it's a stretch to pay at the start that just gets tighter with time.

And what happens if neither get into the grammar? Senior fees are even harder to afford, and there's much more competition for financial assistance. How would you feel about them ending up at a state secondary?

Put it this way, we have over 100k household income and I'm entitled to 50% discount on fees, but we STILL don't send our kids to the private school because we can't afford it all the way through! We're thinking 6th Form only.

You will lucky to get 10-20% if anything at all. Many schools have a cut off income £67-75k is normal. Also you will reassessed every year for your bursary so if your earnings go up the bursary goes down I think that’s not a great way to live. You need to bring in an income to pay for the second child to attend like many of us.

I think a lot of good advice here. We are in some of the mentioned scenarios with our prep here due to change of circumstances in year 2. We have been supported but am well aware that if and when earnings change then we will have to review assistance. My feeling is that now more than ever bursaries will be stretched with many well earning parents now finding themselves without the money to pay. Also I suspect preps in SE do not need to recruit - especially now. So whilst they need to show provision for charitable status, they won't go above and beyond for children who are completely unknown to them. We have had such a huge intake where we are with people moving out, so it is an interesting time for schools with increasing pressure on profitable places I'm sure.

Put it this way, we have over 100k household income and I'm entitled to 50% discount on fees, but we STILL don't send our kids to the private school because we can't afford it all the way through! We're thinking 6th Form only.

Yes! I work in education & was going to apply for a job at a school simply for the 40% fee reduction but it still worked out unaffordable as we have more than 1 dc & didn't buy our home years ago.

I’ve worked in two different preps that offer huge bursaries BUT they were both scrabbling for numbers and financially struggling. In fact, one has closed since. I guess they thought it was better to have any money rather than none at all. This doesn’t help you OP but I did want to say to be wary of any school that offers surprisingly good bursaries!

Bursaries are not intended to bolster the lifestyles of higher rate taxpayers.

They are to make a very good (independent) education possible for very bright children whose family circumstances would make such an education impossible otherwise.

Also you say it’s a 13+ prep. Do they actually have lots of children leaving at 11 for the grammars and, more importantly, do they prep for it? If not you may well find yourself paying for tutoring outside school on top of fees.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s no harm in asking, but I think you might be seeing it a bit through rose tinted glasses after your own experiences.

1. you can’t afford it. This can be a difficult thing to accept if you went to a similar school and always assumed your children would be privately educated.
2. you earn too much for a bursary. And it doesn’t sound like you are maximising your earnings, bursaries (in my school) are rigorously assessed, you need to be low income, working hard and modest lifestyle!
3. many people are in your situation.

My advice - revisit the idea when they are older, maybe you’ll be earning more by then or they’ll be bright enough for a scholarship. Spend the money you’ll save on tutoring in y5 for the 11+

"We are not very low income - £90k pa"

Did you mean this OP?

They may wonder why you can't take on a job outside the house to earn more income. We didn't even bother applying for a bursary when our joint income was $90k and our children were in private secondary schools.

A lot of London schools use the Whitgift scale for bursaries but might be flexible for an academically able child. We were close to the max income but managed to get an 80% bursary- it was incredibly stressful though as we had to reapply each year and I lived in fear of the school asking for more that we couldn’t afford. We’re not repeating for our youngest!

My DS is on a large bursary. Our income is about a third of yours. I think the problem for you is there is a bursary assesment for each individual child you have. So when you apply (in year 2 before the start of year 3) your dd2 wont be taken into accout. An independent agency will come to your house and do an assesment and you'll submit your bank statements too. If they find you can afford DD1 to attend then the bursary will be ruled out. It wouldn't matter if you had 3 other DDs. You could try it anyway and you might be lucky but i think it is unlikely you'll get it. You could pay for DD1 then apply for a bursary for DD2 aa they do take into account fees paid for siblings but that would be risky then if DD2 doesnt get in.

Why can’t you get a job and set aside your wages for school fees and do the business in your spare time?

I’m astounded you think you’ll get a bursary tbh.

If you can't afford it why bother? My parents considered private school, but didn't go through with it. Now I'm a journalist and my sisters a doctor. We know people who were privately educated and decided to be a homemaker and wife.

Two thoughts on this

• you are probably right on the threshold for bursary, so no harm in trying, although if you have savings this will probably count you out. In addition if you business does take off this would definitely rule you out so your bursary would stop and could leave you paying for 2 loads of school fees.
• I have to admit I do agree slightly with other posters in that you made the choice to be a stay at home mum only now starting your business, and you choose to have 2 kids. As you say bearing in mind you were privately educated you had options. Bursaries should be there to support people who have no options and could not access private schools without it.

Sorry this is harsh but it’s called life!!!