Teacher bashing - why? Just curious.

[mag2305]

I'm fairly new to mumsnet and a few times I've mentioned that I'm a teacher. I've then regretted it because it's become apparent that some people dislike teachers for whatever reason and their judgements/comments have been led and overshadowed by their preconceived ideas. Historically, I know the teaching unions got a bad press but that would have been decades ago. Even my dad (self employed businessman), used to say 'those who can do, those who can't, teach". He wasn't being mean to me, just said that could be the perception of teachers out there.
So why do some people not like the teaching profession? Just curious.

There’s also a fair amount of ‘parent bashing’ on MN. Apparently parents are irresponsible and send their kids into school when they’re ill and don’t give a shit about infecting teachers because they want to spend the day watching Loose Women (I’m talking pre Covid) when for most the reality is that they send their children in when they’re mildly ill as they are threatened with sanctions from the school/LEA if they don’t. There are also plenty of derisive comments on here from teachers about parents not accepting that ‘their little darling Tabitha is a bully’ and other lovely examples like that. It works both ways.
Thankfully the majority of teachers I encounter in real life are brilliant.

It’s been going on for years both my parents were teachers and dad got the odd negative comment always from the same “type” male small business owner who were probably a pain themselves at school.

That said I was accused of teacher bashing for daring to say that a good proportion of the staff at dds then primary basically vanished for 3 months in lockdown one 🙄.

I think also there are many times when it's very obvious to everyone - teachers and parents - how some things could be done better. But what parents may not always understand is just how constrained the teachers are, whether in terms of time, resources, money, need for data collection and other bureaucracy, etc etc. Yes, if there were only 10 children in the class; ample supplies; greater freedom to choose how things are taught, marked, reported; more free hours in the day; less pressure from league tables, etc, many of the things that bother parents could be done differently. Not all. But some. And without understanding all the competing demands and regulations, it can seem to parents like teachers are just deliberately not doing things that might seem obvious and helpful.

Parents, especially mums, tend to be very protective of their children.

School is the only area of their children's life they have limited insight/control over. If something isn't working for their child on the whole they don't really care about the teachers, the school, the constraints, (the pandemic) the other children - they want it sorted for their child, NOW.

Some parents are less reasonable than others, have had bad experiences themselves, or in the case of children with SEN have just got so used to battling that that is their default.

I've personally always found that keeping a clear head, being polite and cooperative, but being clear of the (reasonable) outcome I want has the best results.

I am hugely supportive of teachers in general. They work harder and longer than a lot of people realise.
However, some teachers don't do themselves any favours by making out that they have it so much worse than anyone else. @Memlane describes one example.
One of many others I have:
I remember meeting up with a group of friends after a fairly normal week for me which involved leaving hone at 6am to be on a wet, cold train platform at 6:30am, arriving home at 10:30 pm, followed by an early start to drive to an office 150 miles away to arrive at 8:30, leaving at 18:00 to drive home, back about 22:00, the remainder of the week being usual office hours 08:00 - 19:00 with only breaks being to nip to to the loo. One of my teacher friends in that group spent most of the night talking about how easy people like I had in industry, earning a shit load of money for doing very little (her actual words), compared to how hard she and her colleagues worked. That was way more offensive to me than any of the teacher bashing comments I've seen on here.
Another teacher friend who refuses to accept that the additional holidays in any way offset their earnings as she works 'all night, every night; all weekend every weekend; and most of her holidays'. Her Instagram tells a very different story (pre covid) of foreign holidays every school holiday, and weekends of parties and day trips. Which is absolutely fine; but don't exaggerate how much you work when debating whether long holidays are a benefit.
And I have many more similar examples. Whilst these are individuals, and not representative of all teachers, this view that they have it worse than anyone else certainly doesn't help prevent teacher bashing .

@Sally872

I guess when teachers are working with our precious children people sometimes do expect to much. Teacher is trying to do best job for 30 children, parent wants gold/impossible standard for their own child.

Also many parents can't believe their child would misbehave or not be a genius and think that must be the teacher's fault.

Thanks to all the teachers, I could not get 30 children to watch a movie never mind engage in learning.

In secondary schools it’s not 30 children. Parents do forget this. I once had a timetable that consisted of 7 different classes in a core subject plus a form, average class size 28. That’s over 200 children’s needs and learning that you’re responsible for.

My SN DC had a terrible time with teachers in mainstream. A total lack of understanding and an inability to recognise what was difficult. DC was described as horrible. I was lied to about things I had seen
The second mainstream was very different but the head was open and honest. They supported me in getting a SN place
Why should people not be able to say what their experiences are. Should any group be expected to receive nothing but praise?
They do seem to feel the hardest done to of any profession. I have friends who are teachers and friends who are nurses working on the front line. The teachers do far more moaning about how hard worked they are
A teacher on here said, at the start of the pandemic, that she shouldn't have to put herself at risk by having to educate nurses children

A teacher on here said, at the start of the pandemic, that she shouldn't have to put herself at risk by having to educate nurses children

After the PPE debacle at the start, hospitals got themselves sorted with appropriate PPE, testing of patients etc.

At the start everyone was frightened. We were all asked to stay home if possible. Supermarkets put up screens for their cashiers. Teachers still had to go in on rotation to teach/supervise keyworker and vulnerable children who wouldn't always social distance with limited protections.

Teachers have been continually asked to continue to teach with limited social distancing or ventilation classes of students who in the case of secondary may mean 150 different children per day. These children are requested but not mandated to test twice weekly, and who have not needed to wear masks in class a lot of the time.

For teachers with vulnerable relatives they are also responsible for, or just as individuals, I'm not surprised many have been anxious.

Mainly though people seem to generalise very quickly with teachers. One teacher does something iffy, and before you know it people are making sweeping statements about 'all teachers' and 'schools', not this one teacher at that one school.

Mainly though people seem to generalise very quickly with teachers. One teacher does something iffy, and before you know it people are making sweeping statements about 'all teachers' and 'schools', not this one teacher at that one school

Same happens with parents. Parents can’t be arsed to look after their own kids and would rather spend the day watching daytime TV so they send their kids into school ill. Parents don’t believe that their offspring could misbehave. Parents don’t understand that teachers have 30 kids to look after etc. And by ‘parents’, read ‘mums’. Teachers don’t tend to be so disparaging about dads.

I wouldn't play down anyone else's job for being hard, that sounds very unfair. Where I live, people commute up to London super early and come back late, and no I wouldn't swap teaching locally for doing that sort of job. Or doing long shifts in a hospital.

It's what people don't know or see working in a classroom. I'm primary so this will be different to secondary. My experience is teaching the youngest so reception and year 1... x 30. So you have the expectations of the school, head, SLT, curriculum, ofsted, etc to meet. Plus... Observations. Staff meetings. Performance management meetings. Planning with year group. Parents evenings. School performances. Being on top of marking and classroom presentation. Actually delivering the lessons and making them interesting/fun. Subject responsibility. All of that is pretty standard and part of the job. However, you then throw in THE UNPREDICTABLE CHILDREN (haha!)...
This could mean a day where someone walks fox poo through the classroom on their way into school so even before the register starts, a shoe check gets underway.
A child comes in saying that their parent hit them last night - instant safeguarding situation.
A child wants to escape from the classroom or refuses to come into the classroom, shouting and screaming.
A sickness bug could be going round. I've had days where children have gone down like flies but because they don't always say anything when they're little, they just throw up in the classroom and the others step in it!! Poor caretakers are the heroes there.
Then there's children with any medical needs to consider, remembering to administer meds during the day or any issues around toileting.
Dealing with playground behaviour and incidents. In my first term teaching, one of my boys was kicked in the privates by a boy from a different class, and he'd recently been circumcised!! Horrific!
School trips. Constantly head counting and making sure everyone's safe and well, as well as having fun. They age me by about 10 years everytime, haha.

Then ofsted calls!! Yay!!

Even after all those things, I wouldn't say teaching is harder than any other job, but my goodness it really does throw some crazy stuff up. I've had days where I've been on brink of rocking in the corner, haha! But non teachers or parents don't see all those things.
So maybe those moaning teachers might have some good reason to have a moan sometimes. Just saying.

Issues with teachers unions are not decades in the past. My son is starting secondary school this year and the union there is threatening rolling strikes, which I think is quite terrible given how disrupted everything has been for kids.

If I complain about that I'm not 'teacher bashing'. We're allowed to disagree with teachers.

I think one reason the teacher bashing thread become so huge is that once the thread start to go to that direction, it attracts many others who are also angry. Any attempt by neutral/sympathetic posters are buried among vast majority of angry posters.
I've seen threads about particular worry about particular teachers or schools on education board, and it doesn't normally go the same way it goes if the thread was posted on AIBU.

@dreamingbohemian

Issues with teachers unions are not decades in the past. My son is starting secondary school this year and the union there is threatening rolling strikes, which I think is quite terrible given how disrupted everything has been for kids.

If I complain about that I'm not 'teacher bashing'. We're allowed to disagree with teachers.

I was actually referring to union problems in the 70s and 80s that might still taint some current views, perhaps more so in older generations. I should have been more specific.

Teacher bashing? I don't know, maybe it's because they start threads about parents clubbing together for a spa voucher rather than a mug as an end of term gift.

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

Teacher bashing? I don't know, maybe it's because they start threads about parents clubbing together for a spa voucher rather than a mug as an end of term gift.

On gifts, the prevailing views I have seen from teachers are:

• a personal thank you card is the most treasured, or an email to the HT
• feel embarrassed by expensive group gifts as worry that some parents will have been pressured to contribute

@TeenMinusTests that's how I feel. The most precious thank yous are the children's own cards, letters and drawings. I've got boxes of them from over the years.
'Deer miss..... Fank yoo four bein the bestest teechur. Luv....' With a drawing of me looking like a bean pole or a big blob with just eyes! Haha
That's the sort I most love

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

Teacher bashing? I don't know, maybe it's because they start threads about parents clubbing together for a spa voucher rather than a mug as an end of term gift.

Never happened.

You can tell you've not been here long, OP - was always going to turn into the sort of thread you were wondering about.

Feenie There is a thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4284375-Teacher-s-Gifts-Not-another-mug but I note it was started by an EX teacher, so maybe they weren't that suited to the profession.

Tbh I haven't seen the teacher bashing you talk about, what I've seen is when a teacher acts like they're really hard done by, people don't react well.

That quite a different thing to teacher bashing.

The right wing press doesn't help. Things like the press constantly telling parents that 'schools were closed' when they remained open during the pandemic.

Politicians are on board as well, remember when Gove said this about Head Teachers: “If people say 'It's all just a bit too much', my view is 'man up!'”

The right wing press doesn't help. Things like the press constantly telling parents that 'schools were closed' when they remained open during the pandemic

I’m not sure about this. Parents aren’t stupid... we were of course aware that schools were open to a select few. However for months schools were closed to my children, so that’s what I mean when I say ‘school was closed’.

Sometimes any form of negative viewpoint of a school or teacher is perceived or shouted down as 'teacher bashing' as well however.

@Feenie erm but it did.

@AbsoluteMadness you do know that teachers were working from home right? And that kids who were learning from home were being thought by... teachers? So it wasn't open for 'the select few'. It was open for all pupils.

@Yaykyay, but it's still not fair to turn the thread into teacher bashing. One teacher posting about having difficulty for whatever reason shouldn't turn into general teacher bashing.
And one parent complaining about one teacher shouldn't turn into teacher bashing either.