London or NY?

[AnnamumofHelena]

Hello! I am a mum from Barcelona.
We are planning a family gap year, for the sake of my daughters' studies and English improvement. Also, as an enriching family cultural experience.
Our initial choice was London, as we love and admire this city, its huge cultural possibilities, and its proximity to home. Some friends, though, strongly recommend NY instead. They say New Yorkers are much friendlier, and that we will feel quite alone during our London year. They say New York offers many more social opportunities - they lived 3 years in Manhattan.
Moreover, my daughter will not be too fluent in English at first.
There are 3 of us: my daughter, my husband and me, plus our pet dog.
This would happen in the school term 2022-2023, and the girl will be 12 years old. For schools, visas etc, we will hire professional advice.
But first we must decide where to go!
Can you please give us any insight? Thank you very much!

I lived in London for a few years and found it quite unfriendly but I’m from the North of England where everyone chats to everyone here.

Depends where you'll live in both places!

By "social opportunities" they meant the possibility of connecting with local families during our stay; the possibility of doing activities with other families, during weekends, holidays, etc.
London's proximity IS an issue, of course, as trips to home will be much easier, and cheaper.

SteveBuscemi, can you recommend any "friendly" neighbourhoods?

Will she be attending school over in the U.K. or NY?

Yes, of course, that is one of the main objectives of this stay.

My kids’ school has a rotation of girls over for a year from Spain at the age of 12 as boarders. Is this a big thing in Spain? (& if by NY you mean Manhattan and have a huge budget to throw at accommodation and school fees, then NY hands down. But I wouldn’t want to try it on a bidget)

Then I think you will make friends easily and there will be ‘social’ opportunities in both places I’m presuming. I think it’s much easier when your kids are in school to make those connections.

No one new going to want to invest in a friendship with your DD at 13/14 when she will leave in 12 months. Teen girls form very strong peer bonds at that age. I would never move twice at that age if it wasn't a necessity. It could really damage her mental health.

Why don't you hire an English au pair to live with you in Barcelona to practice English with your DD every day? Zoom tutors, English speaking pen pals, anything other than this. Does your DD even want to go?

For the culture just use up all the school holidays on trips to London/NYC.

I know about boarding schools but we don't love the idea, we prefer sharing this unique experience.
If the budget is not an issue, do you mean NY is much better?

As for the mental damage, I have already contacted a psychologist, thanks.

Okay, will you be sending her to private school? Schools are incredibly different throughout London!

I think its a lovely idea. Many will clamour to be friends with your daughter in either city. Having lived in both, I grew up in New York, I do think NYC is a better fit. The city itself is smaller and more managable, less spread out than London. See if you can get a place for her at UNIS.

I think, personally, the gun crime in America schools would put me off having my child there. Just the whole concept of having a regular ‘school shooting drills’ is traumatic.

Also lived on both and without budgetary restrictions, I’d go for Manhattan. As well as what nylon14 said, there will be more Spanish speakers around, it’s much more international and contained and much easier to get to know - you’ll be navigating like a native after a week and London takes much more. I think it’s more accepting. However - fewer private schools so harder to get a place and they are expensive. Rent will be eye watering (but worth every dime!). (For London - consider South Bank international school - lots of people doing what you do and therefore better at socialising with a short term in mind. Curriculum may fit better with Spain too? Whichever way you go, getting your daughter speaking reasonable English before you arrive will make a huge difference to her experience.

)I wouldn’t even have school shootings on the radar for eg brearly / Chapin

To be honest, I think you may struggle to make friends with local families in either place, in the space of one academic year. Essentially, people will be polite and kind in either place, but they have their own lives and friendships and jobs and families, and many will not have time to invest in you.

I would say Americans are more likely to invite you over to their homes (but not New Yorkers, really...), but in London you will likely find more people with connections to Spain. People who will see knowing you as a longer-term relationship, because Spain is considered close, a popular destination, a place people go all the time.

So. Hmm. It's down to which city you prefer, but I think in your situation I would consider London. It's all in the details. Can you find sports/cultural/dance/music clubs or activities that she can join in either city? Those experiences will really help her form a friendship group. You might consider doing the same.

I'm sure your daughter will have a good year in either place!

I would choose London! NY is so cold for most of the year and then unbearably hot in the summer with no escaping it unless you go to the Hamptons or somewhere like that. London is so beautiful and in my experience people are friendly! There is so much more history and culture in London and you can do SO many day trips and weekend trips around the U.K.

Lived in London for years and it’s a wonderful city! People will be friendly wherever you go as long as you’re friendly.
OP, you sound like you have cash so look at private schools if you can, really lovely areas of London include Hampstead Heath and Wimbledon Village.
London offers so many opportunities in culture, history etc and is so diverse. New York offers similar so it’s all down to personal taste. But I’m sure you’d all have a wonderful time in London

@Poorlykitten

I think, personally, the gun crime in America schools would put me off having my child there. Just the whole concept of having a regular ‘school shooting drills’ is traumatic.

I second this

Thank you a lot for your kind and useful answers!

I think a year is a bit short to establish the sort of connections you are after. Having lived in the US I think Americans see being welcoming as “good manners” but that doesn’t mean they are more likely to integrate you into their social circle than Londoners.

Have you thought about sending her to Summer Camp in the US to improve her fluency? This will help her whatever you decide to do next.

I’d also consider using an international school - they will have better ESL support and the children will be more used to friends arriving and leaving.

Trending, we will agree to disagree. Given OPs posts and the rarified air of the Manhattan/ central London private schools that she’s looking at, I think we’re looking more at the demographics of the respective opera house / museum boards than min wage hospital staff. I d also massively challenge the culture point - NY culture far more accessible than London at most levels across music, opera, theatre, dance and art (possibly due to better international mix on boards as before? More likely as far better funded though!)

OK,
I would choose London over New York.
The things that struck us living in the US is that the racism is much worse than in U.K. And being Spanish, you will experience it in NYC especially.
Secondly, are you ready for your child to do practice drills...not just fire drills but madman shooting up the school drills? Because that is what terrified our children the most about going to school there even though they were in a private school that was literally inside an estate with high metal fence and security gates to get on campus.
Thirdly, the weather in NYC is more extreme than London. It gets much colder in winter and it is miserable.
Fourth, I found there to be more homeless in NYC than in London.
Fifth, health insurance and costs in the US are very high for family coverage.
Just my opinion.