Moving to Canada with a 14 year old

[ColaandBru]

We are looking at moving to Canada in the summer. Our DD is 14. Has anyone made an international move with a teenager and how did it go? Half of me thinks it would be fab and half of me thinks it would be daft. She would be transferring to a Canadian (not international) school. She is happy here and doing well. She tends to make friends easily.

I have never met someone who wished that they could move to SK and I meet a lot of Canadians! I declined to move (with our teen age daughter) to both Regina and Saskatoon when my DH has been offered jobs there - and we already live in Canada (Toronto)!

In addition to allowing your DD to finish school in the UK and thus have a choice about moving, I strongly suggest that you spend an entire cold season (mid Oct. -> late May) in SK before committing to a permanent move.

Thanks folks. We do get it isn't perfect. I would pick Vancouver as a preference any day but it is way out of our budget (as is Toronto).

At the moment we have a big mortgage and our DD doesn't even have a proper bedroom. In Sask we could have a house without a mortgage and rent the basement to help with university fees as our relatives in Canada do. Fees are cheaper in Canada than they are in England too so we would be able to support her much better.

We are also worried about family and spend all our spare money flying out to see them.

We work really hard for our daughter here but are struggling on key worker salaries with 3 hr round commutes each day and sky high rail fares. We would just like to be able to spend more time with her (this has been especially hard with the lockdown when she has spent huge amounts of time alone) and we are struggling to reconcile that cycle here.

The reason I'm in this situation is that my family returned to Canada when I finished school. Though I was more independent than she is now, i was not independent enough and it was very hard being alone in the uk. Though it goes against the grain, I would rather keep us together and make the move with her.

Life is never straightforward it seems. Anyway, thanks for all your suggestions. Lots to take on board. I'll try to remember to come back in a year and let you know what we decided.

@SueDeNimm

You might 'all' be into cross country skiing and kayaking but in a year or so that will change drastically for her. It doesn't look like a big area for any of the sports you mentioned anyway.

I've just watched Tin Star which is set near there - fantastic way to get the feel of it. In winter it's outrageously cold. I'd be amazed if you wanted to do much skiing (or even could).

One of my ex employees went there with her parents then came back in her 20s (they all did). Her understanding of Europe and cultural references were pretty basic. Very nice girl but you lose your UK advantages growing up in a place like that.

You would be better off in Scandinavia if you want more nature/sports frankly. Or France. Or Switzerland. I would also say that men love living in the middle of nowhere but it doesn't usually suit most women that well. So I'm sure your husband is keen as mustard but for a girl on the brink of womanhood I can't see it being amazing. Maybe you want to get her away from normal teen culture but if she's not keen it might backfire

well, I lived somewhere that cold and you quickly get used to it. Ice skating on the river was amazing, cross country ski-ing common, even in the cold. It is all about the right clothes.

Not sure that the UK has 'advantages' over Canada? But anyway, she has lived her until 14, and I presume they will continue to visit as it sounds as if there are family connections.

I think the point her is that the family have connections to Canada (the dd has Canadian citizenship) so alternatives like Scandinavia are not really an option, never mind the language barrier for schools.

OP, you haven't really said what your dd thinks of all this? Her attitude and her opinion are very key in this. Some 14 year olds would be up for the adventure, and others really not.

Housing is relatively cheap in Sask because salaries are much lower. The cost of food and gas there is relatively high. One of our highest bills is heating, and I think that would be much higher in Sask. I remember doing the math, and coming to the conclusion that we wouldn't benefit much financially by moving from Toronto to Saskatoon, and the QoL for us would be much lower. Flights to the UK and USA would also be much higher as we would have to fly to Toronto first.

Have a look at this to give you some idea...
www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Toronto&country2=Canada&city2=Saskatoon

Also, be very careful to check whether any professional qualifications would in practice(!) transfer. I can't tell you how many cannot get their qualifications recognized and are re-taking degrees while driving a cab. I made the mistake of assuming that there would be no issues between the UK and Canada due to the common language and commonwealth thing - big mistake. The role of "Canadian Experience" when job hunting is not to be underestimated.

Oh no, not Saskatchewan. Really. She will not thank you for it, not if she isn't keen to go already.

If you want cross country skiing or something, places in Alberta or BC would be better. Calgary is on the edge of the prairies and mountains, and you can get to nice scenery for x-country skiing in under an hour (short in Canadian terms), and see the mountains from the city. It also doesn't stay permanently cold all winter (has a lot of ups and downs!). Lots of opportunity for hiking, kayaking etc in the summer too - lots of good scenery in the mountains! Smaller cities on the BC side of the mountains would be good to look into as well.

A lot of people from Saskatchewan (pretty much everyone I know) move away for university and as adults, so you might well not end up spending as much time with her as you think if she moves away at 18 to Ontario or BC or wherever. Travel between provinces can take a while and be expensive, so it's not like moving across England for university where it's all still very easily accessible and people come home for visits a lot more. Many people end up staying in the city they go to university in, if they've moved away from somewhere like SK.

Education is determined provincially; I think the prairies and possibly BC have a consortium for certain parts of the curriculum. In big cities, there is lots of choice of types of school. I think you would find the culture shift easier to move somewhere else with more scenery, less brutal winters, more going on, and you can still visit relatives in Saskatchewan.

you need to fly to Calgary or Toronto most likely to get international flights, and flights to Europe can be pretty expensive on many salaries there - obviously depending what you do!

She has Canadian nationality so the fees aren't an issue.

I would double check on that, it is normally residence that gives you the cheaper home fees. Nationality is most often irrelevant.

@KarmaNoMore

She has Canadian nationality so the fees aren't an issue.

I would double check on that, it is normally residence that gives you the cheaper home fees. Nationality is most often irrelevant.

The OP is correct. Canadian citizens always pay domestic fees.

However, and this might be pertinent, OPs DD would pay domestic fees at Canadian Universities even if she never lived in Canada.

@ColaandBru Oh yes - Vancouver is horribly expensive. We are struggling.

For what it's worth, I completely disagree with rockin having worked in education in the UK and now in BC. I find it more well rounded here, better quality and less stress. But it'll vary I suppose depending on where you live. The focus for high school/secondary is on maths, English and sciences. It's a completely different system though than A levels etc so might be a huge shock for your child.

@Rtmhwales I'm sorry if you disagree but what I described is my firsthand experience with two teenagers, one who graduated two years ago and the other who is completing his final year. I would have no reason to lie.

@rockinaftermidnite I don't think you're lying about your experience, I'm just saying I disagree and that in my opinion it's dependent on school and a multitude of factors. I've worked in education in both the UK and Canada (and a couple of other countries) and have 2 kids in school as well and I'd much rather they get an education here as I found the education in the UK subpar. It's just a different experience. I'm sure the quality of education varies across the UK, especially between the English and Scottish systems as well.

But also, hi! Another Vancouverite

Jumping in from Alberta.

Saskatchewan? Goodness, no.

What would you be hoping to do there? Presumably you’d be looking for work? Do you all have citizenship/residency?

@Rtmhwales Hi! Nice to see another MN in Vancouver!
I can't comment on the education in the UK. I did my A-levels in London at a crammer decades ago because I failed maths with the IB.
My DC aren't mathematical either but what shocked me was the insistence on years of Canadian history (and Canada is a very young country), the loss of AP English (which wasn't to a very high standard anyway), there was a bare minimum of geography (weather patterns, tectonic plates) and that intramural sports are limited to the athletically gifted. Of course everyone does PE (and are graded on their ability, which personally I find shocking but it's normal here, I believe), which is important.
Some positive aspects are the high level of support in mainstream education for SN (my DS has ADHD), the zero tolerance on bullying, drinking and drugs, the generally high standards of educators, the free transportation to and from school (school bus)...
However, classes are huge at 30+ and most teachers manage 3-4 classes per term, which means they're overworked and stressed.

Good call, OP. Sask is a shithole.

Meanwhile elsewhere on MN a mum wanted to move her 16 year old daughter an hour away so that she (mum) could live with her very nice long term boyfriend. Nearer to a decent town etc too.

And was told by the MN police., no! Don't even think about moving a child at this age! How could you! Just watch your lovely relationship self destruct thanks to your spoilt snd rude daughter wait forever 2 years (except it won't be will it?) till DD goes to uni. Because OMG how could you even think about ripping a teenager away from her friends and school. Beyond cruel.

That was an hour away. Not to fucking Canada.

The weather in Saskatchewan would be a pretty big shock. Ditto the big truck culture and flat landscape.

I’m in BC so can’t speak to Saskatchewan education, but certainly here the teachers often do not know subjects very well at the high school level. Some do, most don’t,
at least not in literature and socials. Mine went to private school early on and the change to public at ages 12 and 15 meant they both told me they were repeating curriculum from a previous year when they got out of private education (I divorced, no money for it). The bar is set very low and not much will be expected (or delivered). Outside of languages and music, the schools swap anyone into any subject area. One of mine had his whole final year of history (in gifted ed) taught by a gym teacher. A very nice gym teacher, but not one who knew squat about history, she tried to keep a chapter ahead of the kids.

A friend who is a university instructor said he has to teach first years about note-taking, plagiarizing, research, etc. Because too many are not taught in high school.

Then there’s taking her away from her friends and a situation she feels comfortable in. I wouldn’t do it.

@rockinaftermidnite I’m in BC and at the school I work at we have AP English (though ya, not to a high standard imo).

Certainly in the experience of my own recently graduated kids there’s talk about no bullying, but not a lot of action and kids are still bullied. There’s also drugs, more at some schools than others, and in my city there’s no school buses (there’s school buses in Vancouver?!). My kid who didn’t go to the nearest school had to pay for the bus, it was over $400 a year.

I don’t find the overall standards of teachers very high. My kids had some great teachers,
lots of average ones and some poor ones. I’ve worked with some incredibly daft and ill-informed ones. My opinion of them has not improved since I was in high school, if anything it’s worse through daily exposure.

Hello to all the other Vancouverites! There are a surprising number of us here!
OP please don't move her to SK at 14. There is not much of anything in SK other than sky and wheat (and snow in the winter!). I think you will find even the "big" cities in SK a lot less cosmopolitan than U.K. cities. Heck - I found Vancouver suburban after living in London for a decade and Vancouver is a LOT bigger than anywhere in SK. Also, you won't find any ski hills out in SK - it is all very, very flat....
As for education, it is a very different system. We have a 15 year old and I find the education here good - but much less "academic" than the U.K. More focus on research and self directed study (especially in the arts) and much less on learning facts by rote. They certainly don't spend any time reading the classics etc. Also they study 8 subjects a year through to grade 12, and need to get a certain number of credits to graduate. If you do decide to move make sure she has enough years to collect the requisite credits.
We love our life in Canada (apart from missing all our family in the UK - especially at the moment) but I think it would be a huge shock to her to move out here at 14.

I think the education must depend a lot on the school/district. Mine was certainly academic, including IB courses, plenty of classic literature, latin, advanced maths, lots of Canadian history but also some world history. We did plenty of grammar in younger years, more literature in high school. Social studies, yes, which included more ethics and critical thinking than just facts. Not much on physical/social geography, it's true. And my art lessons were never great. But the academic side was fine. There are french immersion schools, as well as other languages available. Of course, much has changed and continues to change. But I found it a much more well rounded and less exam-focused system than the UK, and it certainly offered opportunities for high academic level for those who wanted it. I think it puts more of the responsibility on the student to decide what levels/courses they want to do to get the required credits, and how much they want to work for it - there is less pushing from the schools and less ranking of the schools based on results.

But it is so dependent on the province and the city/school, so you'd really have to check what the schools were like where you wanted to move to.

Just not saskatchewan.

@Myshinynewname2021

Meanwhile elsewhere on MN a mum wanted to move her 16 year old daughter an hour away so that she (mum) could live with her very nice long term boyfriend. Nearer to a decent town etc too.

And was told by the MN police., no! Don't even think about moving a child at this age! How could you! Just watch your lovely relationship self destruct thanks to your spoilt snd rude daughter wait forever 2 years (except it won't be will it?) till DD goes to uni. Because OMG how could you even think about ripping a teenager away from her friends and school. Beyond cruel.

That was an hour away. Not to fucking Canada.

to be fair, from the persepctive of the teen, one hour or another country, it is pretty much the same. Tough to move away from friends at that age.

As I said I work with families who move overseas, and we are very, very cautious about anyone with kids over 13.

and most people on this thread are saying don't do it.

To answer some questions. I am a Canadian national and we can get family class sponsorship for my husband (or he can apply through the normal system as he is employed in a skill shortage area). He is able to get work in Sask and that has been confirmed by the relevant employer with whom he has connections. It is one of the reasons behind the location. I would need to do a small number of conversion courses but we are aware of this.

In terms of education, obviously most of you know more than me in real terms and that's been very helpful. We have been in touch with the school board etc so understand the process, curriculum etc. We would also get to choose where we lived to determine admission as an in year admission (in that part of Canada anyway - this wasn't the case when we checked in another area) which is very different from if we moved here where we would be allocated a school space depending.

As regards specifics, we would be staying here rather than moving away for our daughter's school friends rather than for her school itself. It is not great in terms of pushing her and we are having to support her learning significantly to keep her doing well here. She also struggles with exam pressure and I'm not sure England is the best matched system for her. We do have several friends with children at school in the Province and anecdotally they are happy with the provision.

Our daughter never likes the idea of change but tends to be fine once she has adjusted (I'm not going to expand on this or compare situations here). What she really doesn't like is having to make the decisions. Whilst she is 14, I feel that we need to make the best decisions for the family taking her needs very much into account but the decision and the responsibility for that decision must rest with us as parents in the end.

Anyway, thanks for your comments and I am pleased to have been able to help those of you living in Canada to connect with each other

You sound very sensible OP and I'm sure you will make the best decision, for all of you. Good luck with whatever you decide.

You are never going to get a measured response on MN due to the "the UK is the most wonderful place in the world, no-where else comes close" brigade unfortunately.

I don't think most people are saying the UK is the most wonderful place, and we're certainly not a brigade. We are people who have good knowledge of Canada, and we are generally saying - there are great places. But moving to Saskatchewan is not likely to be a good move for a 14 year old from the UK, particularly one who doesn't want to move. There have been suggestions made for other areas of Canada - some not too far away from SK even - that would be significantly better for adjustment and for the sorts of outdoor activities that are wanted, and certainly for weather, scenery, etc. There have been discussions about the types of schools and what is good or bad about them. Education is much less centralised in Canada, compared to the UK.

I think the response has been measured, and many pros and cons discussed. There are many reasons I would like to move back to Canada - scenery, outdoors, quality of life, family, aspects of education, community-minded people, etc, as well as many reasons to stay in the UK - ease of travelling elsewhere, ease of travelling within the country, aspects of further education, arts and culture, etc.

I do think SK would not be top of anyone's list to move to. It's different if you're born there and have family ties, but even then, many people move away when they can, including my relatives. Elsewhere in Canada? Yes, many places would be an adventure to move to, with a 14 year old who is willing to adapt. But if she is already reluctant, then moving to somewhere that is already going to be challenging doesn't seem like a good idea. There are alternatives that would provide adventure and still be closer to family.

Have you thought about Montreal? Compared to Vancouver and Toronto the housing is more affordable and it’s a lot more cosmopolitan than Saskatoon. Plus if she wanted to stay after graduating she’d be close to very good universities.

Op I was on another thread and came across this that you posted 5 days before starting this thread

* We didn't buy the dream house and I'm so pleased we didn't as 12 years on we are a really happy in the stop gap house and have never wanted to move. Instead we have made other investments which have worked well and we will use them to help our DD get a house. We are now paying more into our pensions so we can retire sooner. We hope to be able to stay in our house long term as it is a small 3 bed so we won't rattle around in it later. *

I wonder whether you and your oath we have had the time over new year and have got swept up in thinking about life and making big changes, like I do whenever I’m on holiday!

You sound very happy and settled hardly a week ago. I wonder whether this is in one of those “holiday” thoughts that aren’t really well thought out or “real”?