Anyone know when a 16 year old can leave education.

[shamus2020]

Dc turned 16 in oct and is home educated. If they have decided against doing they're GCSEs can they leave education now? Can't get a clear answer on google. Thanks

There cant have been much home education going on if they were not working towards exams. Seems extremely lazy and stupid parenting

I feel that there is something the OP isn't telling us and am waiting for the dripfeed.

I know from experience that they do NOT need to be in education until they are 18.

I know this too, my dn left school at 16 and didn't do anything for a year then went into pt employment. I don't get why some people think they have to stay in education it's so untrue.

And you can get work with zero qualifications so that's bs too.

And you can get work with zero qualifications so that's bs too.

Yes you can, but they will be mostly low paid zero hours type of jobs or supermarket work, cleaning, farm labouring etc. Why do you think it is OK to limit their options? Why are you so adamant that your child shouldn't take maths and English GCSE? Do they have extra needs? Are they struggling healthwise/mentally?

This is what was on the link I posted upthread

England

"You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays.

You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:

stay in full-time education, for example at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training

Scotland

If you turn 16 between 1 March and 30 September you can leave school after 31 May of that year.

If you turn 16 between 1 October and the end of February you can leave at the start of the Christmas holidays in that school year.

Wales

You can leave school on the last Friday in June, as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that school year’s summer holidays

Northern Ireland

If you turn 16 during the school year (between 1 September and 1 July) you can leave school after 30 June.

If you turn 16 between 2 July and 31 August you can’t leave school until 30 June the following year."

presumably dc 16+ can still be dereg and home schooled though?

Yes, home education is still allowed.

I know this too, my dn left school at 16 and didn't do anything for a year then went into pt employment. I don't get why some people think they have to stay in education it's so untrue.

The law in England changed in 2013. Ginfordinner's post correctly sets out the current position.

If your DN was 16 left school before 2013 the changes did not apply. If they left school after that they got away with failing to comply with the law, as did their employer. People fail to comply with speed limits all the time. They are still compulsory.

Guy in the education dept said it can’t be enforced

Assuming we are talking about England, the guy in the Education Department is wrong. They can take legal action against the parents who can be fined or imprisoned if a child of compulsory school age is not receiving an appropriate education. They may choose not to do so when the child is over 16 but that doesn't mean they can't

Dd was 16 school wasn’t compulsory

Once the young person is no longer of compulsory school age (which has been correctly stated above - effectively the end of the school year in which they turn 16), they can be fined if they fail to participate in education or training. Anyone who employs the young person can also be fined if they have not made appropriate arrangements for the young person to receive education or training

So what happens if someone age 17 becomes self employed. Do they get a fine for employing themselves.

By the time dd was 18 she had so much experience in one area she was managing people who had been to university to do the job she was doing.

Around my area in order to get into college you have to have Maths and English. Even for practical courses.
If you don’t you are put onto the level 1 course where you remain until you have passed them both.
Ds managed to get onto a level 2 trade course before the rules changed.
He failed his English exam then couldn’t do level 3 but had to go down to level 1. In one class he completed the terms work in one lesson. It was a waste of time. He left after a week and now has taught himself stock trading and is trying to break into another career
No one has ever said anything. No one has ever said he should have remained in education. He couldn’t do training as he didn’t have his English GCSE

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for their child not being in education or training when they are over the age of 16

The 18 thing isn’t strictly true.
Although you won’t find any info to back me up!
My step daughter went to 6th form after gcse, hated it and got a job instead (not an apprentiship)
The school told her there was nothing they could legally do to stop her leaving and not entering any other form of education!

My yd left college in the second year and didn't do anything else. No work with training, no apprenticeship. Even though online it says they must be in some sort of education, I phoned my local education department, several departments, and eventually got a call back to tell me there wasn't any way of enforcing it. I rang around as I was worried a truant officer would come round and she or even us could have got into trouble. She did leave more health reasons, but that didn't seem to be the reason they were ok with her leaving.

I was homeschooled and not entered for any exams and not taught to any curriculum, and it completely destroyed my life. 99.99% of the job market is closed to you (I'd love to know what these magical senior managerial positions that teens without any GCSEs can stumble into, certainly I've never come across them) and once you're out of education it's extremely difficult to get back into it.

I tried desperately to be allowed to sit GCSEs as an adult and was not allowed, as I was over 18 by the time I was in a position to be able to advocate for myself. I was told if I wanted to sit GCSEs I'd have to pay for them myself, and it took four years of saving up my benefits before I could afford that. I had to do all the studying by myself at home and could only afford two terms, so had to pack two years of GCSE study into six months, entirely self-directed. I was also only permitted to take five GCSEs. The lack of structure and need to be self-disciplined when I'd never had any structure or discipline in my life before was the hardest part, and it's something I still struggle with. It was extremely hard and without meaning to self-aggrandize I doubt anyone who's not both very self-motivated and naturally academic could have managed it.

I was 28 when I graduated university, 30 when I passed my MSc, and nearly 40 when I finally got my PhD, by which time I was simply too old for most of the careers I'd dreamt of doing. Not a single day goes by when I don't think of the life my parents stole from me, and I really struggle to appreciate what I have because I am so bitter about what I could have achieved if I'd had even the tiniest amount of support. I appreciate that not all teenagers are academic and that not everyone is right for university, but if I'd taken GCSEs I would have been able to start my chosen life path many years sooner, and would have had more options open to me.

Please don't deny your children something so small that could open up a thousand new avenues in the future.

Wow @EmilyinWolverhampton. Well done for overcoming such difficulties. Did your parents not value education at all?

My apologies. I checked the legislation before posting but overlooked that the enforcement part of the Education and Skills Act still hasn't been brought into effect even though it is 12 years since the Act was passed and 7 years since most of it came into force. It is unusual for legislation to remain on the books but not in effect for this long.

The legal situation, therefore, is that young people who are over compulsory school age but under 18 are required to be in some form of education or training by law but there is no mechanism for enforcing this. Local authorities are under a duty to promote participation by young people and identify young people who are not complying, but they currently have no powers to do anything about it. All somewhat ridiculous really.

Wow @EmilyinWolverhampton. Well done for overcoming such difficulties. Did your parents not value education at all?

Thank you, I appreciate that.

My parents actually did value education hugely, or at least my father did, and I believe the values he instilled in me when I was very young gave me the determination and focus to pursue education later in life. Without that I honestly don't know what I would have done.

Unfortunately I lost my dad very young, and my mum had a lot of mental health and substance issues and just couldn't really cope.

What a genuinely inspiring post @EmilyinWolverhampton

Really fantastic achievement!

@EmilyinWolverhampton

I was homeschooled and not entered for any exams and not taught to any curriculum, and it completely destroyed my life. 99.99% of the job market is closed to you (I'd love to know what these magical senior managerial positions that teens without any GCSEs can stumble into, certainly I've never come across them) and once you're out of education it's extremely difficult to get back into it.

I tried desperately to be allowed to sit GCSEs as an adult and was not allowed, as I was over 18 by the time I was in a position to be able to advocate for myself. I was told if I wanted to sit GCSEs I'd have to pay for them myself, and it took four years of saving up my benefits before I could afford that. I had to do all the studying by myself at home and could only afford two terms, so had to pack two years of GCSE study into six months, entirely self-directed. I was also only permitted to take five GCSEs. The lack of structure and need to be self-disciplined when I'd never had any structure or discipline in my life before was the hardest part, and it's something I still struggle with. It was extremely hard and without meaning to self-aggrandize I doubt anyone who's not both very self-motivated and naturally academic could have managed it.

I was 28 when I graduated university, 30 when I passed my MSc, and nearly 40 when I finally got my PhD, by which time I was simply too old for most of the careers I'd dreamt of doing. Not a single day goes by when I don't think of the life my parents stole from me, and I really struggle to appreciate what I have because I am so bitter about what I could have achieved if I'd had even the tiniest amount of support. I appreciate that not all teenagers are academic and that not everyone is right for university, but if I'd taken GCSEs I would have been able to start my chosen life path many years sooner, and would have had more options open to me.

Please don't deny your children something so small that could open up a thousand new avenues in the future.

Wow. OP, do you want your child to be in Emily's position? Emily sounds like an amazing person who has achieved such a lot, and more than most. Well done! You op, are setting up your child to fail, as most people could not do what Emily has done. Most people will live a life in low paid jobs and not fulfil their potential if they are not set up correctly with gcses as a bare minimum. You sound like you are happy with the bare minimum for your child, just like your niece, and what a shame you can't see more for your child than that.

@EmilyinWolverhampton

I was homeschooled and not entered for any exams and not taught to any curriculum, and it completely destroyed my life. 99.99% of the job market is closed to you (I'd love to know what these magical senior managerial positions that teens without any GCSEs can stumble into, certainly I've never come across them) and once you're out of education it's extremely difficult to get back into it.

I tried desperately to be allowed to sit GCSEs as an adult and was not allowed, as I was over 18 by the time I was in a position to be able to advocate for myself. I was told if I wanted to sit GCSEs I'd have to pay for them myself, and it took four years of saving up my benefits before I could afford that. I had to do all the studying by myself at home and could only afford two terms, so had to pack two years of GCSE study into six months, entirely self-directed. I was also only permitted to take five GCSEs. The lack of structure and need to be self-disciplined when I'd never had any structure or discipline in my life before was the hardest part, and it's something I still struggle with. It was extremely hard and without meaning to self-aggrandize I doubt anyone who's not both very self-motivated and naturally academic could have managed it.

I was 28 when I graduated university, 30 when I passed my MSc, and nearly 40 when I finally got my PhD, by which time I was simply too old for most of the careers I'd dreamt of doing. Not a single day goes by when I don't think of the life my parents stole from me, and I really struggle to appreciate what I have because I am so bitter about what I could have achieved if I'd had even the tiniest amount of support. I appreciate that not all teenagers are academic and that not everyone is right for university, but if I'd taken GCSEs I would have been able to start my chosen life path many years sooner, and would have had more options open to me.

Please don't deny your children something so small that could open up a thousand new avenues in the future.

Amazing post and how refreshing to see things from another perspective (one I suspect is the truth of what really happens when basic qualifications are bypassed).

Well done on what you have achieved despite the poor choices made on your behalf by your DM.

@EmilyinWolverhampton - congratulations on achieving so much without the educational start needed. I hope you have had the opportunities to enjoy the career to match your academic skills.

Unfortunately I lost my dad very young, and my mum had a lot of mental health and substance issues and just couldn't really cope.

This is why there needs to be more regulation of homeschooling. Despite what the nice MN homeschoolers want to believe, far too many home schooled children aren't home schooled at all, they're simply being removed from the system, either to avoid parents having to deal with the crutiny of the system or because parents don't have the capacity to deal with it. Both are a disaster for the children.

It must have been incredibly hard for you Emily.

The OPs child is still within compulsory school age though as the June deadline still applies to pupils who are being home educated.
Home-ed pupils don't have to follow the National curriculum, but some form of education/training is still needed.
Perhaps you could consider functional skills instead of GCSEs?
The jobs market is really tricky at the moment and there is a lot of competition for jobs and apprenticeships. I don't think you can rely on being able to obtain a job easily with no qualifications now even if it was possible a few years ago.

A child who has not yet done exams is in a room full of doors, leading in many different directions. Whether they sit exams, or how well they do on them, depend which doors they can go through and which are locked. By allowing your child to not even attempt GCSE qualifications, you are locking the vast majority of doors for them. Yes, one might still open, but does it go where they want to be? In later life, like Emily, they may be able to unlock some more through sheer hard graft, but some will be locked forever - not through lack of ability but through lack of even trying.

Despite what the nice MN homeschoolers want to believe, far too many home schooled children aren't home schooled at all, they're simply being removed from the system, either to avoid parents having to deal with the crutiny of the system or because parents don't have the capacity to deal with it. Both are a disaster for the children.

Well said @SnowySheep

Unfortunately I lost my dad very young, and my mum had a lot of mental health and substance issues and just couldn't really cope

Tbf you really weren’t home schooled

I understand where you're coming from, Oliversmumsarmy, but the issue is that you can't differentiate between "good home schoolers" and "bad homeschoolers" and "people who are only pretending to homeschool for their own agenda", for the simple reason that the system itself is not set up to acknowledge those differentiations.

I actually briefly worked part-time as a tutor for an organisation that provides courses for homeschooled children and all the parents whose children I taught were wonderful and very dedicated to their children's education. I'm not questioning the existence of fantastic home schoolers or the fact that home schooling can provide an excellent education. Of course it can, whether this is within the NC or not.

But any system that allows parents/guardians to simply remove their child from the educational system and in some cases remove them from public view entirely - with literally zero monitoring unless the parents choose this voluntarily - is clearly a huge potential danger, and it's dangerous to dismiss the victims of homeschool legislation by saying "oh well they don't really count because they weren't really being homeschooled."

By definition children of "good" homeschoolers will have more positive outcomes than children of "bad" homeschoolers or "fake" homeschoolers.

Everyone has a different idea as to what constitutes a decent or necessary education - people have argued that since the Ancient Greeks - and there are certainly issues with the National Curriculum, and with the current thinking around university education. But we live in a society, and a huge part of contemporary British society and employment is run on the basis of minimum academic qualifications. I'd never suggest that anyone needs a university degree and when I mentor young people I try to encourage them to explore all possible options. But 99.9% of people who don't have GCSEs or the equivalent (and that .1% are likely children with very loving, invested, and likely affluent parents) will find their options severely limited.

It's difficult, and there are no easy answers. But I simply can't condone and can't believe anyone would condone a system that has no safeguarding systems.