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Original poster

Children "susoended" for kissing at school

53 replies

Hulababy · 05/10/2004 18:09

Here

Eight school children in Wiltshire have been suspended after protesting against a ban on "canoodling".
Children at Warneford School in Highworth, were told they were not allowed to kiss, hold hands or hug.

Several refused to return to classes last Friday lunchtime in protest, and held a rally in the playing field.

Headmaster John Saunders said the eight were suspended for being rude to staff and not because they contravened the "canoodling" rule.

'Light-hearted'

He said the ban was aimed at instilling "appropriate behaviour" in pupils.

"We were reminding the pupils of a rule that already exists. It was fairly light-hearted," said Mr Saunders.

"We have a school council through which the pupils can express their views, but on this occasion they chose to make a protest in a different way."

The school has around 900 pupils aged between 11 and 16.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
JoolsToo · 06/10/2004 22:36

well I'm very encouraged by this thread - I thought I was the only one that thought like this!

If we all think like this - who do these kids belong to?

Nikkim - but LOL Little Britain girl - I get the picture.

eidsvold · 07/10/2004 06:28

oh hmb your stories brought back memories of the secondary comprehensive I taught in over in the UK - scary thing for me was the numbr of girls in my year 9 form class who were pregnant at the end of that year or at the end of year 10... the irony was that I was pregnant with my first at the time. Now pregnant with no2 - as are some of them..... 16 & 17 yo - here am I old mother at 36..... SOme of them were the least likely to get pregnant iykwim....

SOme of them were talking in their prep period about how cool it would be to have a baby ..... I couldn't help myself and started telling gory stories and they still seemed to think it was cool!!!!!

hmb · 07/10/2004 06:28

Mine is not a bad comp, in a not so bad area! There are schools local to me which are much worse that I would not work in! The school I work in has a 60% a*-C pass rate, so we are above the national average. The hand job in the classroom wasn't in my school but in the 'best' school in the area that people move house to get their kids into!

Most of the kids in the school I work in are great, and i honestly love my job. But any teacher would be able to tell you similar stories, well, anyone in the state sector, and the private ones have troubles of their own with drug abuse and anorexia etc being a probelm.

The kids that wreck things are in the minority but it isn't a small one. They have never been raised to have any respect, and often they are the kids who's parents will stop the school from diciplining the kids either.

Even in a 'good' school it is common for teachers to be sworn at, kids get beaten up and their education wrecked by kids who don't give a damn and see no reason why they should.

The joke is they all think that they are going to walk straight out of school into a job paying £50,000 with no qualifications. The boys are all going to be footballers and the girls beuticians.

Ask any of the teachers on MN and they will be able to tell you similar stories. One, and to my shame I've forgotten who, was shoved in the stomach by a student while pregnant.

I went to a rough school in the 70s and there is simply no comparison with the behavior in schools today. Which is why I tend to get a bit punchy when teachers are expected to be superhuman saints and put up with limitless crap

hmb · 07/10/2004 06:43

Sorry , that was shoved in the stomach while pregnant. And it was a deliberate violent act.

Original poster
Hulababy · 07/10/2004 08:14

HMB - It was me. One of my Y9 pupils deliberately threw a cahir towards me in his anger - I has asked him to do his work; not shouted, etc. - and it hit me in my tummy. I was about 7 months g at the time. Even the rest of his class was shocked. He also ran out of room and put his fist threw two glass panes in the doors on his way out He was suspended for two days, but no apology and no parents in. He came back into my class the following week, and even a year or more after laughed and joked about the incident

OP posts:
Original poster
Hulababy · 07/10/2004 08:17

School I work at in now in Special Measures and has a GCSE pass rate of 28% this year. OFSTED found that the poor behaviour from "a signicant minority" caused most of the problems. But that significant minority are spread over different classes, therefore many classes are affected by it. And if one pupil is sen, by the pupils, to get away with they all join in. We are even having bad behaviour in the isolution unit at the moment

Majority of the kids in school are lovely. Sadly these are overshadowed by such "significant minorities". It's the latter who take up all the teacher's time and attention.

OP posts:
MeanBean · 07/10/2004 08:57

Hulababy, why didn't you simply go to the police and sue for assault? Surely your head would have backed you?

Original poster
Hulababy · 07/10/2004 09:07

Doesn't work that way in schools I'm afraid. Everything is done within the school and TBH senior management were less than helpful. Even the union rep wasn't hepful. I went on mat leave very soon after and, maybe silly, just left it. Looking back I know I should have done more - as that lad never improved his behaviour in school at all. He's left now. Dh is a solicitor and was so furious, but again powerless.

TBH school discipline is a strange one - everything kept in-house wherever possible. And teachers aren't always backed by the heads as schools prefer these to be kept quiet

OP posts:
MeanBean · 07/10/2004 09:22

TBH I think that's part of the problem. If pupils and their parents knew that that sort of behaviour would lead to court action, I don't think it would be so prevalent. And I simply cannot understand a union which expects its members to work with the threat of violence as a normal part of their working day. Would you have been sacked or disciplined if you'd taken it to the police? I can't understand how a physical assault of that nature can possibly be viewed as anything other than a matter for the police. And keeping it "in house" simply normalises that kind of behaviour within schools, imo. That boy probably does understand that if he did that sort of thing in a restaurant, or at someone's house, he'd pretty soon be up before the beak, but if he does it as school he'll get away with it because the standards of behaviour are actually lower than in a public place. Which just can't be right.

Original poster
Hulababy · 07/10/2004 09:26

I agree Meanbean. I think violence in schools does need to be taken way more seriously - whoever it is directed towards.

In saying that we have had a case round here that did go to court. A pupil (16yo boy) hit two teachers at school; one he punched in the face. His punishment, through the courts, was compensation of £25 to each teacher.

OP posts:
hmb · 07/10/2004 16:28

An NQT was raped at the start of the year, in her first week of teaching.

Every time one of these cases makes the news you hope that finaly people will take notice and something done about it.

TBH, the school I work in is good, far 'better' than Hulababy's. The SMT are very supportive and it shows in the behaviour of the kids (and staff for that matter! Children do get excluded. But the trouble is that what ever they did to 'get' the exclusion has probably led to the wrecking of yet another lesson. I had to have a child withrawn from a lesson and she physically refused to move. She and a member of the SMT were stading outside for 20 minutes. By which time my class was in uproar.

And then parents will come in nd tell you that the school is at fault, that you are 'picking on' their child etc etc. And it takes forever to get these kids permanently excluded. And when you do, some other school has to take them

The kids know that there is almost nothing the school can do and parents often fail to support the school. And then they wonder why the police end up geting involved .

suedonim · 07/10/2004 17:07

Well, 17yo dd1's jaw has just hit the floor, reading about these pupils/schools. She just doesn't recognise the descriptions as having anything in common with her school at all. I think maybe she now realises how lucky she is to be getting the education she's receiving.

hmb · 07/10/2004 17:20

Part of the reason that my kids don't go to the local school. I worry about what is going to happen to these kids when they leave school. At the moment they feel that they can behave as they wish, with impunity. If they try this sort of stunt in a job they will get sacked! They have no idea what the real world is like. If they mouth off at someone in the pub the way they do in school they risk taking a beating.

I repeat, most of the kids I work with are wonderful but some....

One today refused to go with the duty HOY and the two of them stood out in the cold for 20 minutes until she said she would move.

Just how are we supposed to work with these kids, and more to the point, how are other kids supposed to work with them there? (child is NT btw)

So as I said, this all explains why I get rather twitchy when I read mumsnet threads where people boast that being with their kids teachers brings out the devil in them, just as it did when they were in school

hmb · 07/10/2004 17:20

Part of the reason that my kids don't go to the local school. I worry about what is going to happen to these kids when they leave school. At the moment they feel that they can behave as they wish, with impunity. If they try this sort of stunt in a job they will get sacked! They have no idea what the real world is like. If they mouth off at someone in the pub the way they do in school they risk taking a beating.

I repeat, most of the kids I work with are wonderful but some....

Just how are we supposed to work with these kids, and more to the point, how are other kids supposed to work with them there? (child is NT btw)

So as I said, this all explains why I get rather twitchy when I read mumsnet threads where people boast that being with their kids teachers brings out the devil in them, just as it did when they were in school

hmb · 07/10/2004 17:21

Sorry!

suedonim · 07/10/2004 17:52

Oh, forgot to say, I'm pleased to see you back on MN, Hmb.

edam · 07/10/2004 19:15

Hmb, I do sympathise. But I think when people post about problems with teachers they just want to sound off somewhere safe, and usually need a bit of support/to find out other people also think whatever happened was odd or wrong.
TBH, one of the schools I went to (we moved house a lot) sounds similar to yours. This was in the 1980s, big comprehensive. Had been a grammar and still had good reputation but I couldn't believe the standards of behaviour ? some classes were a riot, in the true sense of the word. And boys were allowed to sexually harass girls in a way that out of school would have been a matter for the police . Eventually when my mother found out what was going on I got moved to an independent, single sex school and the relief was enormous!

MeanBean · 07/10/2004 19:20

But this is what I don't understand: why is it that behaviour which out of school would involve the police, in school doesn't? I just don't understand why the police aren't brought into schools? Is there some particular reason for this which has been lost in the mists of time?

hmb · 07/10/2004 19:26

edam, I have no probelm with people being annoyed with specific teachers, like all humans we make mistakes/are idiots sometimes/ do stupid things etc.

My issue is that there are mumsnetters who send their kids to school and then say, 'I felt the devil coming out in me, just like with the teachers when I was in school'. And that is what I have a problem with. If your school days have left you feeling that teachers are crap (and I've read competlling stories on MN that would make anyone feel that), don't trust them with your kids! Home ed. And I know MNs that do and all power to them for having the courage of their convictions.

What pisses me off is when parent undermine the staff that are working with their kids.

If they have a probelm, discuss it with the staff, and sort things out for the benefit of the child. Don't do as the father of one of my pupils did and say to the kid, 'Teachers only set homework because they are too lazy to do the work in class'.

It makes a hard job even harder.

jampot · 07/10/2004 19:35

At dd's school the Head deciding she had to make a stand was forceful in her delivery of the school's anti drugs policy and followed it up by a visit from the drugs squad with sniffer dogs just to show that it can be done and she wasn't afraid to resort to this. I personally think she had a great idea. Also they had a visit from Paul Betts, Leah Betts' dad, who talks to the children about the effects of drugs and drug abuse.

hmb · 07/10/2004 19:38

They have both done a lot to put forward and anti-drugs policy. We use a video they made about Leah, and it is heartbreaking.

jampot · 07/10/2004 19:44

HMB (and other teachers) - what would you say was the single biggest cause of kids being so vile and violent in schools (apart from their parents of course) - does drugs have anything to do with it?

hmb · 07/10/2004 19:57

That has a big part to play, but tbh where I work drugs tend to come after the bad behaviour not before IYSWIM. Other teachers will have different expoeriences I'm sure.

Biggest problem I find is kids who have no respect, as they don't know the meaning of the word no. A group that knows their rights but not their responsibilities.

jampot · 07/10/2004 22:06

my friend has brought her kids up to respect no-one (her words not mine) and she is almost proud of this fact . For the last couple of years she has resigned herself to the fact that her son (11) is going to miss school/play truant etc and seems to have accepted it which absolutely disgusts me. Anyway within his first month he's already on report and neither of them seem to care. So I guess this kind of supports your idea hmb. I can barely bring myself to speak to her.

pixiefish · 07/10/2004 22:20

jampot- i think the biggest problem is that kids aren't scared of anyone or anything. The 'extended family unit' has fallen apart. Eg. When I was a kid I had loads of 'aunties adn uncles' in the village where I lived and any on of them would tell my parents if I misbehaved-now the sense of 'community' has gone- people don't go to church/chapel any more- kids don't know how to behave anywhere because they're not taught or shown.
I took a group of 16 year olds to the theater last year and half way through one of them asked (in a loud voice) when does this thing finsh miss? she would not be quiet- ffs she should know not to be so rude.
i had a table thrown towards me by a 16 year old when i was 6mths pg- luckily i dodged it and the culprit is now back in school doing a levels. another boy called me a stupid hoare for not letting him use the pc because he'd been caught surfing porn sites the day before- he's still in school and his own mother is scared stiff of him.
a friend of mine was kicked in the back by a year 8 boy- she went to the police, they gave him a telling off and he's still in school... the list goes on...
some children have no respect for anyone or anything- it's a very sorry state of affairs and imho it's because society is crumbling- we have to travel further afield for work, leaving behind grandparents and uncles adn aunties etc.
I honestly despair of the future.