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Original poster

Another paranoid school thread from pain in the a***over anxious parent

27 replies

MeanBean · 03/10/2004 20:36

DS is 5 and 4 months, in year 1 and has begun to hate school. They have a very interventionist policy and have put him on the SEN list for his motor skills and reading, and on Friday he burst into tears and said he didn't want to go to school because he can't do a 9, as it comes out as a P, and he can't do the sums.

Then today he told me that his TA will get cross with him if he gets the sums wrong and that she has told him it's bad if he does.

I really don't know what to do about this. He is obviously feeling enormously stressed and anxious about school, and I'm beginning to feel enraged that my little boy is being put under such unnecessary pressure. I don't know whether it is just his character, and he is a worrier (possible) or whether the school are taking the most cack-handed approach to teaching a five year old that they can possibly take.

I've already expressed my concern about the SEN intervention and the fact that many boys do not develop their fine motor-skills until a good year after girls, and I'm afraid that if I "have a word" with his teacher, they'll think I'm one of those pain in the arse parents who won't leave them alone to get on with it. And I don't know whether he is telling the truth about what the TA said, or whether it is just his interpretation. But otoh, if what he is saying is right, then I can't allow a perhaps not very good classroom assistant to send such negative and demoralising messages to my DS, setting him up to think school is not his thing for the rest of his school career. Oh what shall I do?

OP posts:

roisin · 03/10/2004 20:43

I love your thread title! Do go in to school and have a chat with his teacher. Different children do need motivating in different ways, and she may well not be aware of the impact her and the TA's approach are having on his confidence.

It is very important that his teacher knows how demoralised he is feeling, if she doesn't already.

marthamoo · 03/10/2004 20:46

Oh what a dilemma. They seem to be being exceedingly tough on him - he's only 5 FGS! Ds1 used to reverse several letters right up 'til the end of Year One. Are YOU concerned about his motor skills and reading? It seems very soon to be taking special measures to me.

You can't just let it go, as he is so unhappy. I would go in and see his teacher - and without sounding overly critical of their methods or his TA - explain how unhappy and stressed he is, and how he doesn't want to come to school any more. That isn't being a pain in the arse parent - it's being a parent who is justifiably concerned for the welfare of her child.

I don't know how you find out if your ds is being entirely accurate about what his TA has said to him - but if you talk to the teacher then hopefully the message will be passed on to the TA and she'll stop being so hard on him (if she is). Maybe she feels pushing him is the best way to go - and will back off a bit if she realises that's not the best way for every child.

Can you possibly get in to school to help out once in a while? I do this with ds1 and, while there is an element of staff being on their best behaviour while you are in the classroom - you do get a general feel of how things work, and what the staff are like.

Poor you - it's horrible when your child is unhappy at school - you feel so powerless. Ultimately, if you and ds are unhappy - and you don't feel like the school is taking your concerns seriously, maybe it's time to consider moving him?

HTH.

roisin · 03/10/2004 20:49

I used to worry about being viewed as being a PITA parent, but now I just don't care! As long as you make it clear that you are "on the same side as" the teachers - wanting your son to make good progress and enjoy school, (rather than someone who just wants to complain all the time), I think she will be pleased to know you are interested.

sobernow · 03/10/2004 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SenoraPostrophe · 03/10/2004 20:54

I agree - tell the teacher what he has told you, but don't go into any judgments you have about the way they do things (because that might get the teacher's back up and may be inaccurate anyway). Most teachers would want to know if a child is facing such a crisis of confidence.

frogs · 03/10/2004 21:45

Sounds pretty tough to me.

My ds turned 5 in July (also Year 1) and proudly brought home a whole A4 sheet that he'd filled with numbers, almost all of them reversed. The sheet had a gold star, a tick and 'well done for working so hard' written at the bottom, which I though was pretty fair, considering it must have taken him ages to do. Their class mantra seems to be "Miss X says Year 1 is all about trying" which also seems pretty reasonable.

His reading, by contrast, is pretty good, but his writing largely illegible. Nobody seems to be too worried about this, but then it is a very socially and ethnically mixed school, who are used to working with a wide ability range.

'Sums' in the abstract seems quite advanced too -- ds does stuff with numbers, but it seems to be dressed up as counting and number patterns. I don't think the idea of his answers being 'right' or 'wrong' has really dawned on him yet.

So yes, I would be concerned, and would have a word with the teacher to try and find out what's wrong and tell her how your son feels. Maybe he is being excessively sensitive, but then they need to know that he feels that way so that they can work with it.

pixiefish · 03/10/2004 21:56

Mean Bean- sorry haven't red the rest of this thread as i'm tired and off to bed but felt that i had to say something to you. Don't accept this from the school... The TA is totally in the wrong- teachers and TA's are meant to support children not make them scared etc... complain to the school... so what if you feel you're a pain... better that you care than aren't bothered like some parents. Also why don't you ask if there's something you can do to help as a leader in to the complaint.That way it's kept fairly light. If the teacher's any good she'll stamp on this-I certainly wouldn't allow it in my classroom

marthamoo · 03/10/2004 21:59

I've just remembered that when ds1 had spelling tests in Year One they would still be marked correct if he reversed the letters (ditto numbers in numeracy tests). When it was Parents' Evening his lovely Year One teacher said that he was not expected to get them right all the time in Year One - but they were working towards it for Year two as if they do it in the SATS they will be marked as incorrect.

Yorkiegirl · 03/10/2004 22:05

Message withdrawn

PuffTheMagicDragon · 03/10/2004 22:17

Agree with pixiefish (with my early years teacher hat on).

It is completely NORMAL for children to reverse some letters and numbers during year one.

You'll probably have a more productive conversation with the teacher if you arrange to see her at the end of the school day, if you are able to.

Good luck [smile}

Puff (formerly 2gb)

PuffTheMagicDragon · 03/10/2004 22:18

even

tigermoth · 04/10/2004 08:02

I was just practising writing with my 5 year old on saturday and he did the exact same thing - mixed up 6 and 9. He seems to like school - not as keen as last year mind you. He misses the easy access to lego.

His teacher asked to see me last week as it happenes as my son is not sitting still at carpet time and shouts in the toilets. She thought a formal reward system backed up by a home school book would help him. She asked me to fill it in every day. I agree with her almost all the way, but she is super eager - just out of college - and for various reasons I think she is being a bit too interventionist as well.

Anyway, I am useing the book to politely list anything I am worried about too - from ds losing a pair of trousers after PE to him not understanding the spellings she has given him to learn for a test. I also write praise for her or my ds if he has said something nice about school, improved in his work etc. I am not around to see her in person, but this way, she will know what's worrying me (and making me happy) and hopefully can send me a note of reassurance at her own convenience.

So far I have made 6 general entries - she has made one and that was on the first day. Do you think she deserves a sad sun yet?

Ramnbling away here, but meanbean could you go and talk to the teacher, say you are worried that your son is unhappy being in year1. Then you suggest you start a daily home school book with the teacher so you can record any positive or negative things from your end, and she can comment on them when she has time?

Cam · 04/10/2004 09:12

Sympathies to you Meanbean, It's horrid when your child is unhappy at school. It's perfectly normal to reverse letters and numbers at this stage. I would speak in a low-key way to his teacher and explain that your ds is frightened to go to school because he thinks he will get into trouble for reversing his numbers. I think its best to state a specific reason for ds's unhappiness at school whilst at the same time asking what you can do to help him at home. It's not good that he is getting negative feedback from the TA. Hope it goes ok. As a last point, most children hate it when they get anything "wrong" (which they will do as they're learning so much so fast!). I remember my dd getting upset when she was first learning piano notes and getting them wrong frequently. I exlained to her that was why she was having lessons; that if she knew it all already she wouldn't need the lessons.

sis · 04/10/2004 10:00

Meanbean, I agree with Roisin's posts - havea word with the teachers whilst making it clear that you are on the same side as them in wanting the best for your son. Whatever the TA is doing, it is making your son very unhappy so definately have a word with them about it. Good luck.

Original poster

MeanBean · 04/10/2004 13:54

Thanks for all your posts, I wrote her a little note this morning, telling her how upset he's been this weekend so that she knows how much pressure he feels under, and asking her if there is anything I can do at home to help.

I was a bit worried this morning because he seemed to be saying that it wasn't just the TA who would be cross with him, it was also his form teacher. Much more alarming (we had the now usual tears about going to school this morning.)

OP posts:

WideWebWitch · 04/10/2004 21:10

Meanbean, I'd get in there if you possibly can for a morning to help out and see if you can get a feeling for what's worrying him. Agree their interventionist policy seems very ott for 5yo (we've discussed this before, haven't we?) and that school at this age should imo be mostly about having fun and not feeling under pressure. Poor thing, I do feel for him, and you. Don't worry about seeming a PITA, steel yourself, be polite and friendly and go and ask the teacher what she thinks. Maybe he's misinterpreted something someone said to him? Is that possible? I've been outraged by something ds has told me before only to go in and ask about it politely to find it's not AT ALL how he explained it. Not suggesting your ds is lying, just that maybe he's misunderstood. I do hope you get to the bottom of it, it's very upsetting I know.

frogs · 04/10/2004 21:22

Meanbean, notwithstanding what I wrote below, it's worth remembering that children do differ hugely in how they perceive the words and actions of adults.

A friend's dd who is in the same Year 1 class as my ds is very anxious, a bit like your ds, and is always saying 'so-and-so can do x and I can't' or 'everyone will laugh at me if I can't do y'. Meanwhile my ds is coming home saying 'Miss X says it doesn't matter if you get it wrong as long as you try hard.' Listening to the two of them, you'd be pushed to believe they were in the same class.

A rambly way of saying that your son's perceptions of things do need to be discussed so that staff can (hopefully) adjust their behaviour accordingly. But in fact it may just settle down as he gets more confident with the new routine and his own abilities.

ScummyMummy · 04/10/2004 21:46

MeanBean- I think all the advice on here is spot on. I do hope you will be able to sort things out so that your sweet-sounding little boy feels better. And you do too. It all sounds quite heartbreaking and the school definitely need to know how upset he's feeling, whether they are "at fault" or not. Sounds like your note will do the trick. My sons (y1 also) are both reversing letters and numbers like billy-oh btw and one of them is also finding reading a slow process but both their teachers say they are doing fine.

cazzybabs · 04/10/2004 22:09

I would think SEN support is good - the earlier you get support the better it is. But agreee talk to the teacher about the TA (but tactifully because they might be friends) because it is not bad if he gets the sum wrong, its her job to teach him not to! Children do seem to know what they find hard and he may be aware that other children seem to find maths easier than he does - so prehaps you could have a chat about the fact we are all good at different things, he is good at...., but needs some support to work at .... where as Mummy is good at .... but has to work at....

Original poster

MeanBean · 06/10/2004 10:53

I have a meeting booked with his teacher tomorrow! Will let you know how it goes...

OP posts:

bundle · 06/10/2004 11:00

hope it goes well meanbean, my nephew (6) was reversing almost all letters/numbers until v recently because he's lefthanded.

Original poster

MeanBean · 07/10/2004 21:52

OK, had the meeting today. It turns out that he is incredibly bad at paying attention which is why his teacher has told him off and made him think that she's "cross" with him. But she has also reassured me that the school is very into positive feedback, not just negative, which tbh is what I thought, and why I liked the school in the first place. She also thinks that he is just one of those kids who have a very tough time in the transition from reception to Year 1. So I'm going to concentrate on getting him to pay attention more, with star charts for listening properly and following instructions. I've also played Simon says with him this evening. Any other tips on how to get him to develop listening and concentration skills will be welcome!

OP posts:

PuffTheMagicDragon · 07/10/2004 22:28

listening skills/games

tigermoth · 08/10/2004 07:27

good luck meanbean.

Speaking from experience with my oldest, who used to be bad at listening, I'd say it helps if the bad listener is sat near a good listener. Teachers moved my son around many times and once he found a friend who was a keen, attentive student, my son settled down a lot. Ds is best friends with this boy, who is a darling. Even now, if ds is getting too loud and silly, I have seen his friend look sternly at him and say shhhhh. It works!

Also, the bad listening problem improved with age. It was all part of growing up, and I think ds just got fed up with getting minus points at school for it. It wore him down in the end.

Original poster

MeanBean · 08/10/2004 11:45

Puff, that site is great - some really good ideas in there. Thanks for the link - it's now in my favourites!

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