St Catherines Bramley

[Frequentdriver]

I notice a number of old threads on choosing girls schoolas around Guildford so I thought this post might help anyone deciding on girls' schools in the area at the moment. (New thread)
I have had girls at St Catherine's for almost 10 years, through Prep, Senior and 6th form. The Prep school is strong, well run and the culture is open and honest. The head is a genuine and is proactive in ensuring children are treated as individuals. However this is not the case across the road at the Senior school. The cuture there is very different. It was once described to me as " a bit draconian" which I now realise is the least of its problems. It does have some excellent teachers but sadly they are in the minority. They have too many staff members who struggle with the quality of their teaching and their behaviour in class. Over the years my children have been shouted at, called names (yes really) and when parents take the trouble to complain about a teacher ( and there are many, many instances of complaints) the policy is for the teacher to deny all. Any request to bring in other pupils as witnesses is denied. Any escalation to senior management literally takes weeks and your daughter will be quizzed over and over again to the point where they realise any complaint is not worth it and they begin to fear retribution from the teacher in question. This intimidating approach to processes is particularly true of their bullying policy. They adopt a "no-blame" policy- which initially sounds great (and probably is if you child is the bully in question) but essentially means that any complaint by a child of bullying means that child is "interviewed" at length, in class hours, to everyone's knowledge, causing more drama and pressure on an already victimised child. The bully gets to respond (but lying is obviously very common) , but I know of many cases where the outcome is "what can we do to address the sensitivity of the child who has lodged the complaint". By never acknowledging any blame lies with the bully, the victims stop complaining (or more likely eventually leave the school) and the school gets to claim they have very few instances of bullying. Trust me: bullying is very common. When over competitive girls find themselves in an environment where the teachers get away with lying and covering their tracks, and the girls can intimidate and bully with no real threat of consequences, bullying is bound to be a problem. Sadly this culture has got worse over the last 5 years I would say, not helped by a head that refuses to hear this message from concerned parents. I know parents from almost every year with these issues, and many that have just moved their girls out- its ultimately all you can do when you hit trouble. It is hugely unfortunate as some teachers are truly dedicated and the girls love them and the facilities are undoubtedly outstanding. However unless pupils can be protected from the individuals who bully and intimidate (both girls and staff) I could not recommend this school to anyone. Things are not so bad (for us at least) that I have had to move my children out-although we have come close, but they will be leaving before 6th form to places that value individualism as well as kindness.

It is very difficult to generalise, there are some that are very lucky to have wealthy parents but that is the minority, I would say with most parents..... a common ambition for their DD and desire for them to go to a Russell Group university (even if their DD may struggle). Most parents are working... lawyers and doctors are typical. A lot of girls have a lot of outside support ie those that excel at music tend to have external lessons, those that excel at sport do a lot outside school..... and whilst not encouraged by school extra private tutors at home are not unheard of. But I believe this goes on with most London /Surrey independent schools that attract those looking for a competitive driven school.

I wouldn’t recommend St Catherine’s School Bramley to anyone. I have two daughters at the school and both will be leaving after GCSEs. The school focuses far too much on the institution and far too little on the individual. Pastoral care is patchy and inconsistent and complaints are met by a wall of denial.The girls are not encouraged to be kind to one another and it shows. The school is overly formal with little sense of fun. Our son went to Amesbury and got to play in a rock band; at St Cats you’ll be encouraged to play in a string quartet. If you’re looking for a happy and caring environment then look elsewhere.

I would dispute this post above as my experience when researching the school has been great. I have visited the school and the other 3 in the Guildford area and was very impressed with all I saw and heard. We are very lucky to have these choices. St Cat’s may not suit all as an academic school and all have individual requirements but I am shocked at the what has been said here behind anonymity. I suggest Halsmereathome that you address these things with the school direct if you are unhappy and be transparent about it. I am now deleting this chat as unhelpful and shall make my own judgements as I have heard many good things from many folk with happy daughters at all schools. We are very lucky to have such great schools in our area. I shall be reporting my disgust to Mumsnet that this soft of comment anon is allowed - goodness my eyes have been opened to the toxity of this website.

Goodluck Tennyson1969 with your choice for your goddaughter, as I said, it has to be the right fit - hope whatever school you choose she thrives and is happy.

This thread came up on Active convos and as a current St Catherines parent I have read it. I’ve name changed so that a link between my other posts and this school post can be confidential and doesnt get me or my daughter identified.

I can only think that @Haslemerehome has been living under a rock and clearly has no actual interest in the school that she claims her daughter goes to! What a load of bollocks to suggest it is a school where no one is encouraged to be kind to one another?? What school would actually have policy like this. Think about it. In fact we have found the opposite, all the informal house events and the fact sports teams often go right down to Es and Fs shows just how kind supportive and inclusive it is. And as for the ridiculous comment about the music - I have been to the annual jazz and ROCK concert for the past 3 years in a row, complete with girls playing in a rock covers band right through to contemporary jazz and traditional jazz!! Most girls are very fond of the head there and at the new starters talk she even joked about them coming and saying hello in the corridor and possibly even a high-five. Similarly the anti-bullying policy so many on here claim to be expert on - have you actually read it and understood it? In U3 (yr7) my daughter was having a few problems with some girls that shared her bus and was scared to say anything but I raised it with her tutor who explained that the way this would be dealt with would be first to get the girls to work through what had happened with the teachers involved and no one would be ‘in trouble’ at this point so it gave her the confidence to go ahead with the conversation without being accused of getting someone in trouble. The teacher was clear that following the discussion this could be the end of the matter if the girls resolved their differences, but that any further infringement or unacceptable behaviour would be dealt with seriously. We found this works really well for these typical girl tensions. Actually I’ll mention that most of the teaching has been excellent and very personal - they’ve raised that they are watching her with concerns about spelling and timing and will assess her for this if it proves necessary. Lovely school that suits MY daughter,

My honest feeling is that if you are the sort of parent that basis a decision on the education of their precious child on anonymous reviews on a forum like this then you will never find the right school for your child. All the schools offer a different product and you need to actually TALK to them in person to find out what fit is right for you!! To write off a whole school because of a few clearly unhinged angry comments which could reflect very individual experiences for reasons we know nothing about - making broad brush judgements based on these is so short-sigherd.

@Frequentdriver you sound very angry and a more mature approach would be to deal with what you perceive as problems in the privacy of the Heads office!! How anyone can take this thread seriously is beyond me! @Frequentdriver and @Haslemerehome If you hate the school, find a new one, but there is nothing to be gained for you personally to slag it off to all

@Darkhan
Thank you !

@justranout I've just asked my dd if she knows her 'position' in the class and that of others in the class and she looked at me like I'm mad. How would she know her friends marks unless she asked them? There is no public list!! Why comment if you don't even know what you're talking about.

I am a first time poster but have been a reader of Mumsnet threads for some time and read the perennial St Cats vs GHS vs Tormead thread when choosing schools. I have 2 DDs at the school, both in the senior school.

I wanted to register my first post after reading this thread with some astonishment. This sounds like a different school. Everyone’s experience is different, but we have been nothing but incredibly impressed with the school.

We came from a different independent school in the area and since joining St Cats our daughters have thrived. They are happy, confident in the right way and engaged. We have not been aware of any bullying, but clearly other posters have had different experiences.

Standards are high and if your daughter is towards the bottom of the class, it may be tricky but I would think that would be the same whichever school they are in. My recommendation would be to ask the school broadly where they came in the entrance exams. We did and the school gave us a broad indication.

That said, genuinely equal weighting is placed on all subjects including art, drama, sport, textiles etc and so it gives the girls a chance to shine in a broad range of fields.

Sport is at a high standard and it has needed some expectation adjustment for our daughters but the school have been good and will always offer constructive feedback on how to improve.

So far at least, we could not fault it.

Greengogogo - in answer to your question about the family background, there is a real mix. In my experience, almost all are kind, generous and “normal” hardworking families. We have seen none of the snobbishness that sometimes gets levelled at St Cats. To be honest we dismissed the school at prep level due to this perception, only to realise that it was a complete misconception. We now wish we had sent both girls from reception onwards because the prep school is amazing, although we only experienced it briefly.

There are some people with money, but it is a private school in Surrey and so this is a given. But 1. That does not make them unkind, bad people and 2. You really don’t have to have money to fit in.

It has a self confidence and is far less flashy than the more city based schools. The girls are kept busy with an incredible range of after school activities (helps being part boarding school) and this means our girls have grown up slower and held onto their childhood longer than I think they would have at other schools in the area (less time for social media, make up, shopping in Guildford etc) although I am sure this will come as they get older.

Our DDs are very different, but the both seem to be thriving and the school has catered for them both well.

I am astonished by the comments about a toxic environment, not fostering kindness, poor pastoral care etc. What we have seen is the antithesis of this.

I have never known a school to have so many girls leaving in all years. Especially in year 7/8 and then again after GCSEs. There is something very poor in the way the school manages bullying and social issues.

Damnthatanxiety- having had very recent and current experience of both those years, that is categorically untrue.

This thread is malicious. Fortunately, most people I know avoid Mumsnet so aren't exposed to the ill-considered, uninformed claptrap on here.

@PennyBrite it is entirely possible for different girls to have entirely different experiences of the same school, whether at the same time or at different times. Factors such as the personalities of the individual girls in their respective years, the girls' own interests and aptitudes can colour that experience in different ways. I loved my own school whilst my sister couldn't wait to leave for sixth form elsewhere due to obnoxious girls in her year group. C'est la vie.

I certainly have no axe to grind. I am simply stating what I have heard directly from two former St Cat's girls' mothers and have referred to on this forum before.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3034830-st-cat-s-bramley

CuriousChip it is great that you have had a good experience but I speak the truth. I know THREE girls - potentially 4 who are leaving at the end of THIS year 8. And I know several who are leaving after their GCSEs THIS YEAR. So I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. I know these people and I know they are leaving!

May I ask, in your expert opinion, how many leavers is normal offer GCSEs?

If you are considering St Cats Prep, now would be a great time to apply. I understand at least 10 families have handed their notice in for other private schools with several more that we know about setting to do the same before Christmas.

@HappyChapess yes I think all of the independent schools in the area will be in the unusual position of quite a few spaces becoming available

@HappyChapess I misread your comment, ignore my reply

DD at St. Cat’s and I totally disagree with many of these negative comments. I did a huge amount of research on girls’ schools and can honest say, St Cat’s is fabulous. DD is bright but not at the top end of this school and is thriving. It’s perfect for girls who want to keep busy, get involved and try new things. It’s academic, yes, but challenging and supportive in equal measure. The head, Alice Philips is one of the reasons we chose this school. She’s hugely inspirational and really knows her stuff. Yes, they are fund raising, but we certainly haven’t been bombarded for cash requests, unless a termly newsletter with a paragraph on development is a bombardment?
The school is nurturing and has excellent teaching. Girls are required to develop intellectual inquiry in order to do more than the minimum. It is academic and in order to justify great results, a school has to encourage pupils to take responsibility for their learning and hit the ground run at A-level and university. Fundamentally, you get out of a school what you put in. The happiest girls here are the most involved, and love being in matches or shows or choirs with their friends. There is plenty of healthy, internal, friendly competition, but not academically. The girls are actively told NOT to discuss exam grades with peers and to focus on their own personal bests.
Re bullying, I think the message is lost in translation. ‘No blame’ in my opinion, means the school think a child may behave badly for a reason eg family/personal problems. They definitely investigate and try to help. Often, bad behaviour stems from other things and I think St. Cat’s don’t jump to conclusions. I appreciate that isn’t helpful if you think your DD has suffered bullying, which I completely understand, so it’s maybe just the wrong school for those girls.
One of the really big things here is the House system which is effectively the ‘family’ your DD joins. The house system creates a sisterhood with very strong relationships that allows the girls to excel both individually and as a team with their friends. The girls all support and champion each other. Even when they don’t win, they have a good time trying.
We are delighted with St. Cat’s and feel that we couldn’t wish for anything better for our DD.

st Catherine’s - where to start. On behalf of my daughter, I’ve seen a lot of bullying in st Catherine’s as many other mothers have said - and, I can’t believe it’s got to the point that I have to say this, the majority of bullying in my daughters experience has been from the teachers. It breaks my heart to say that the teachers get involved with and enjoy the drama as much as the students can and therefore almost encourage it. They have called parents and bitched about students to them which is completely unacceptable and unprofessional. If I could rethink my decision - I would never send my daughter to st Catherine’s, it has put her through so much. The staff are the main problem - and even when she was on online school she didn’t even have a single zoom class call - how frustrating!! Her grades dropped because the teachers prioritised older students despite them not having exams. Their main problem is the bullying and childish teachers. Take my advice and send your children elsewhere.

Honestmother123 you say ‘if you could rethink your decision you would’. Well, you can!! There are dozens of great schools in the area if that’s how you feel about St. Cats. . Your negative opinion won’t help your daughter- if I were you I’d vote with my feet. We did have zoom contact over lockdown and we were delighted in school’s healthy approach to a challenging situation. As for teachers calling you to ‘bitch’? Really? I think you should document this formally to the head teacher or governors if it is true. Don’t complain on social media - take action. Speak to school for resolution if you want one or leave the school. It’s not healthy for you or your DD. Good luck....

Daughter has friends at all 3 girls schools in Guildford. Cannot believe these posts are genuine, and suspicious of the fact mumsmet run by former GHS pupil ( be interesting if this gets published!). We swapped from GHS and never looked back. The house system is fantastic, the girls are always encouraged to be kind and polite ( easily assessed by simply watching how pupils react when out and about - I have never had a St Cats girl let a door slam in my face - unlike another school on here!!) As to fun - activities weeks included in fees ( as a result , full participation); jazz club; thriving theatre performances (where everyone rather than just the in crowd participate) ;sport genuinely open to and enjoyed by all; massive Gold d of e cohort; and the largest active alumni group of all local schools would seem to fly in the face of the claims on here. I appreciate there can always be an odd exception- but we always found pastoral support fantastic; and had Tormead and GHS protocols to compare. Without a doubt different types in of schools suit different girls - but suggest the easiest and least biased way to judge is just simply park up outside each school and watch the faces of girls going into and leaving school, and whether or not they are smiling and in happy, friendly groups. Unless there has been a radical overhaul, I know which school would pass that test with flying colours, and it certainly is not GHS!

I did laugh at the last reply. I cannot remember anyone in the thread making comparisons to GHS which to those that know is a self-confessed factory and they are not ashamed of it.

The summary above certainly isn’t current, home schooling and how they have handled covid so far is distressing /amusing when compared to other schools in the area. I am sure they are praying we do not go into lockdown or they will have to address their significant short comings. The arrogance and glaring transparent quotes in regular updates genuinely make me cringe. We have more cases of covid because we are rich and can test more........ come on......

@HappyChapess we are currently doing the Guildford girls schools research for sept 2021 and with Covid likely to linger, the remote offerings is very much on my mind.
What are the shortcomings? I understood girls all had iPads and zoom accounts? Is this not working out or being offered. It's a tough choice looking at schools in this climate

So do you think they have more Covid than others because of how it's managed? Surely it's just bad luck if cases come in to school. My sisters school in south Norwood has loads of kids out.

I think remote hybrid provision will be a big decider for us as I can't see Sept being much different! And how on earth are these schools even going to run the entrance exams?

@itsmymess When you compare the schools in the area ,the lack of live lessons seriously let St Cats down. They were non existent in the Prep and minimal in the senior school even in key years. I am sure many will disagree but most of those will probably only have children at St Cats or fully believe the guff that comes out in newsletters.

Reference covid, all school are suffering, there is no getting away from that. Having said that it is being completely miss managed at St Cats. The flow of information to parents and staff is flawed with key information missing. The decision making at the top seems to rely on a few of their friends who are advising the school. Within the last few newsletters two points stood out.

"The girls are reminded that they were taught all of last term, especially in comparison to the vast majority of the national cohort in the main sector, many of whom were abandoned"

Its almost as if the school are creating a false narrative for everyone to follow. At 6k per term you would expect a better service. Actually look at the details and they did an abysmal job. They have implemented new systems which should be better than the previous setup which was cobbled together through lack of preparation but the proof will be in the pudding so to speak.

Secondly very little common sense seems to have been applied at the school. I do think the lack of this is one of the key problems.

A nurse at school was diagnosed with covid 6 weeks ago..... she has now tested positive again, however on the advice of "the friends" advising the school, she is at work and those that had been in contact with her have been advised to carry on. Don’t get me wrong, I am no rocket scientist but i have a few questions / points to raise. Could the first test have been a false positive? Has she had covid for the full 6 weeks? if there is a positive test of any kind I do not want her in school or around my child. Maybe this is why there have been new cases consistently throughout the school since the start of term. Pretty sure its averaging 3 or 4 a week, but that is just what we have been told.

I could go on, but there is enough information here for others to disagree with! I

f you are speaking to the schools, ask them for the an example of the live lessons which took place during lockdown, ask if they worked to timetable, ask how long it takes for teachers to respond to questions from pupils and the turnaround to mark work. Also ask how much time the girls spend on the online platform during school time as this will be utilised should we go into lockdown again and the girls will obviously need to know how to use it.