St Catherines Bramley

[Frequentdriver]

I notice a number of old threads on choosing girls schoolas around Guildford so I thought this post might help anyone deciding on girls' schools in the area at the moment. (New thread)
I have had girls at St Catherine's for almost 10 years, through Prep, Senior and 6th form. The Prep school is strong, well run and the culture is open and honest. The head is a genuine and is proactive in ensuring children are treated as individuals. However this is not the case across the road at the Senior school. The cuture there is very different. It was once described to me as " a bit draconian" which I now realise is the least of its problems. It does have some excellent teachers but sadly they are in the minority. They have too many staff members who struggle with the quality of their teaching and their behaviour in class. Over the years my children have been shouted at, called names (yes really) and when parents take the trouble to complain about a teacher ( and there are many, many instances of complaints) the policy is for the teacher to deny all. Any request to bring in other pupils as witnesses is denied. Any escalation to senior management literally takes weeks and your daughter will be quizzed over and over again to the point where they realise any complaint is not worth it and they begin to fear retribution from the teacher in question. This intimidating approach to processes is particularly true of their bullying policy. They adopt a "no-blame" policy- which initially sounds great (and probably is if you child is the bully in question) but essentially means that any complaint by a child of bullying means that child is "interviewed" at length, in class hours, to everyone's knowledge, causing more drama and pressure on an already victimised child. The bully gets to respond (but lying is obviously very common) , but I know of many cases where the outcome is "what can we do to address the sensitivity of the child who has lodged the complaint". By never acknowledging any blame lies with the bully, the victims stop complaining (or more likely eventually leave the school) and the school gets to claim they have very few instances of bullying. Trust me: bullying is very common. When over competitive girls find themselves in an environment where the teachers get away with lying and covering their tracks, and the girls can intimidate and bully with no real threat of consequences, bullying is bound to be a problem. Sadly this culture has got worse over the last 5 years I would say, not helped by a head that refuses to hear this message from concerned parents. I know parents from almost every year with these issues, and many that have just moved their girls out- its ultimately all you can do when you hit trouble. It is hugely unfortunate as some teachers are truly dedicated and the girls love them and the facilities are undoubtedly outstanding. However unless pupils can be protected from the individuals who bully and intimidate (both girls and staff) I could not recommend this school to anyone. Things are not so bad (for us at least) that I have had to move my children out-although we have come close, but they will be leaving before 6th form to places that value individualism as well as kindness.

[SilverPolarBear]

Yes definitely horses for courses.

Probably would be tormead over priors field hearing about organisation levels and general approach at priors field from friends. Agree tormead have been efficient.

For us the academics of these schools become irrelevant. All are decent. It's more the wider offering for us and also looking long term to sixth form. I moved for sixth form to a town girls' day school and regretted it. So being somewhere with a strong sixth form that offers lots of experiences and is not just about a level results and the odd token cv building activity is important to me for my DDs. St cats does this uniquely well it seems. I know this is contrary to st cats but I think co Ed helps with this. Annoyingly there is a shortage of academically solid, co Ed schools nearer Guildford hence going further out.

Have you just done tormead and st cats?

[fartoomanychoices]

ps. we also have St Cats on our list.

[fartoomanychoices]

Thanks @SilverPolarBear, that's really interesting to read and glad to hear your year 8 DD is doing well! I guess it's courses for horses as I got way more of a buzz and pull factor from Tormead than St.Cats, they just seem way more 'on it' across the board. The draw for us to St Cats is definitely the countryside feel, grounds, space, etc,., which tormead doesn't have. Of the remainder of your list Tormead is also the most academic one of the lot, so I guess that is your second choice or is your DD more after the co-ed thing? I'm hopeful for Tormead for my DD, its just the right fit, but friends tell me their year 6 is large this year, leaving very little places for external applicants. Given how many people that I counted at their activity day, i'm a bit concerned! Having come from abroad the whole process with UK independent schools is exhausting! :-)

[SilverPolarBear]

Hi there, we have one DD in year 8 st cats and one sitting 11+ this year. Both very different characters.

Have been extremely happy with st cats. I think this thread is storm in a teacup but obviously I only know the lower end of the school. If anything pastoral side seems very on it and friendship stuff dealt with heavily and well- possibly a reaction to previous bad press? But a good thing for us.

It is traditional, boarding/house system style - but a day school too- and is big on getting all involved, vertical mixing across year groups and the small tutor groups feel quite house master style pastoral care which I like. Dd joined a shy but keen girl and is now extremely happy and is so much more involved and confident than at her prep where you had to be really good at things to participate. Younger DD is more of a tom boy (am I allowed to say that these days?!)- likes football and less perfectionist.

Looked at all the Guildford area schools for both DDs and so have really 'been around the houses' recently seeing them all! Mainly sat so many because younger DD can be quite inconsistent academically in exam conditions so prep head advised us to have have choices just in case- which makes me very nervous!!

We are also torn on single sex vs co-Ed if she doesn't get st cats. The rest of our list is tormead, churchers and St. John's. I think she may go for St. John's (although nightmare on the school run planning for me so let's hope she can follow her sister to st cats!!). Already ruled out priors field based on local friends' experiences there and not sure tormead had the extra buzz/pull factor to persuade her or us. May be our only offer though fingers crossed!!

[fartoomanychoices]

My daughter just sat the Tormead Interview today and she seemed happy when she came away, I posted the other day on another thread.

We have also applied for St.Cats, but unlike Tormead, i'm not getting a gut feel for it. It is such a beautiful setting and school though, which is a big draw for us - coming from a v busy city! But then pulling me back is just how organised/lovely the people working at tormead have been with us over the last 6 months..... obviously i know thats their job! haha

I hadn't actually seen this thread before the bump by the pp..... I guess my questions is whether the St.Cats stuff on this thread is real and extensive or just small incidences, disgruntled minorities and MN storms in tea cups.

Would anyone be able to shed some light from inside St.Cats right now?

[HappyChapess]

It does sound exactly like her. Maybe she should have used a member of staff as a ghost writer. It would be more illiterate and therefore less suspicious.

[Herani]

Reading this, I'm so pleased that we chose Prior's Field over St Cats. Look at the exam results....there's not as much difference as you might be led to believe between Tormead, Cats and PF. It's not perfect and it is 'relaxed', but the lockdown provision was good and they take exams seriously. One relatively minor bullying incident with my DD was dealth with immediately. Nothing like the issues mentioned here. I would encourage you to consider it, even if a decade ago, it wasn't seen as an 'academic' school. Things moved on years ago, as the waitlist shows.

[SmallSquirrel764]

I am a student at St Cat's, and I found this with my friends while we were having a look to see if there was a MumsNet page. I think that the grading system is super unfair. We are ranked against our friends, which is rubbish because it means we don't have any motivation to help each other, because heaven forbid they do better than us. There was an incident last year where three girls in the year below were expelled for bullying, but the victim left too. She was interrogated during school hours and everyone says she did so badly on her end of year tests. I'm reasonably happy, but I do think the bullying system and the grading systems are really unfair

[Surelynotmorechutney]

It’s the ebb and flow of life for St. Cat’s. They’re responding to the fallout of a pandemic where people who’ve been involved in public exams perhaps have more immediately quantifiable concerns than those in junior year groups with more time ahead. With home learning and limited input from schools, we’ve all questioned whether we actually need to pay huge sums of money for school at all. 6th form is an obvious place to get out, especially when there was no certainty this time last year, of what the future held….and potentially retain the fee savings for two years. I can understand completely why people did this. I know people who wanted their daughter to spend time with boys too in a mixed school as there was no social mixing - again, a valid reason to look elsewhere. It’s just been a convenient time for the naysayers to come out and bash St Cat’s.
I think the senior leadership team and governing body at St Cat’s have brilliant planning and problem solving skills which they will employ to full effect.
Now, isn’t it time for a cuppa?

[Neverenoughflowers]

It's the same letter my friend's daughter received. Although it wasn't received by me, I don't classify her 'word' on said letter as gossip. I do hope that you stand corrected.

I do agree that no one wants to trap girls and I'm pretty sure that 100% isn't their aim! I think the actual, original point which someone made, was that unlike before they are now having girls leave, or are considering it anyway (like my friend). Therefor this change is them simply asking for more notice so they can plan in their schedules and teaching for the next year.

I do agree there is a lot of negativity about Cats on here at the moment. Personally I've never bashed them and have always posted in a balanced way, regardless of the topic. However, you have perhaps hit the nail on the head... there clearly are some negative parents out there, but despite all the positive ones (agree they exist!), these negative people are disgruntled enough to put their fingers to their keyboards and seem to have genuine issues.

My simple thought was that perhaps they need to work out why this is happening and fix it?

[Surelynotmorechutney]

Thanks for clarifying that position. Perhaps it isn’t intended to be a permanent change but what they needed to do at one point for whatever reason. Ultimately, if people want to go, I would imagine school would have a good idea early on. If people seek to move to another independent school, St Cats would know as it’s part of the application process. Problem after GCSE is that 6th form offers might be conditional upon GCSE grades so maybe people keep their option open. Whatever their reason, I’m sure it isn’t to trap people. It really wouldn’t be in St Cat’s interest to hold onto a bunch of people who are constantly dissatisfied and feed toxin into the system! There’s a lot of negative chat on here about St Cat’s, but forums generally attract that. Few people go out of their way looking to tell complete strangers how happy they are, but I know for every unhappy parent, there are more happy ones. Also, the friends of friends of neighbours of the dog walkers don’t really count……

[LoveJubble]

@surelynotmorechutney it isn't "gossip", the school sent a letter to parents in U5. As for terms and conditions, suggest you take it up with the school.

[Surelynotmorechutney]

I’m not here for a fight. I’m just stating facts that I know as a st cats parent. I’m not saying anyone is wrong but asking where info comes from. It doesn’t stand up as fact “that someone told someone else”. That’s known as gossip…. What is printed in black and white on an organisation’s website does. I’m not interested in policing anyone but don’t say things you can’t back up. Perhaps if I wanted to move my daughter I’d want to know this. School have not articulated this to me so any change in T&C would be difficult to enforce if they hadn’t told parents or put it in their website…..

[Neverenoughflowers]

@Surelynotmorechutney welcome to a public forum, im certain @LoveJubble hasn't made this up, I'll let them answer for themselves. But I'm just repeating what I've been told. Which again, I haven't made up. So thanks for policing the forum!

[Surelynotmorechutney]

Yes I’m a parent and there are no historical letters about this on the protected ‘parents area’ of the website. Personally, I wouldn’t comment publicly on things I have no actual proof of. Nor any personal interest in….

[Neverenoughflowers]

@Surelynotmorechutney I think she knows kids or has kids there herself? I've also heard the same from a friend who is a parent at St Cats. Websites are always behind and I imagine it's not been changed yet because like my friend said, you can't actually enforce it without giving enough notice. It's second hand to me via my mate, but maybe @LoveJubble can enlighten us on her take

[Neverenoughflowers]

@LoveJubble my friend actually quite strongly believes that to change the terms and conditions of those in an exisitng contract you have to give at least a terms notice, so surely this change for existing U5 students can't be 'enforced' for this year's cohort.... just 'requested'. What are your thoughts

[Surelynotmorechutney]

How do you know that? If it’s not in the website…..

[LoveJubble]

@Surelynotmorechutney the website does state one term, either it has not been updated or one month still applies to other years.
Moving from U5 to L6 has increased to a term and a half that I do know.

[Surelynotmorechutney]

Where is the info about a term and a half notice on the St Cat’s website? It states clearly right now that it’s one term. Not a term and a half?? As far as I’m aware that’s standard in private schools…..

[LovemyChickens]

@LoveJubble thanks for letting me know, i'll pass it on, although im sure she is aware!

@Neverenoughflowers I don't follow St.cats, but just had a peek. They didn't even tag the other school's twitter thing. Although, I guess it's not a bad thing, if you're looking to attract competitive girls! Horses for Courses?

[Neverenoughflowers]

Very interesting! They are obviously trying to sort out the issues mentioned throughout this thread. Although a term and a half seems quite standard to be fair, ie it's always been that at Tormead. I guess, though, if they now have girls indicating a desire to leave for other places, they need more notice to plan.

Something is clearly rattling their cage, I would suggest a number of the local girls' schools, co-eds and the colleges are now a real threat to numbers, given they haven't really ever had to do anything before, with the competition seemily doing the opposite.... You can't go anywhere without seeing a certain sixth form college advert slapped on something, for example!

I have a DD, and have been posting for years on here about local schools as I've had a few other DCs through the systems. I follow them all on Twitter and it made a couple of us mums chuckle this morning at drop off, that St.Cats have recently upped the Tweets from zero to hero, one of which takes great pleasure in highlighting a swimming win over Tormead.... my DD was at the 'gala' and there were loads of (un-tweeted) schools there!...

Perhaps that kind of 'directed tweet' sums the approach everyone here has been alluding to? Most sport tweets I read these days always thank the host, congratulate everyone who took part, and don't usually highlight the loosers!

[LoveJubble]

@mariesky - it is now one and a half term's notice (used to be just one term)