secondary school punishment...am livid

[Tortington]

my daughter partially completed her drama homework - as did most of her class as the teachers instructions were not clear. she has the chance to complete the homework and hand it in tomorrow - fair enough - she now has clear instructions! however if she fails to do this she has been given a slip of paper which says the following

"Five lines, to be done on your own paper, to be handed in tomorrow with the missing homework. Do three lines if you receive help with your english.

I am given homework, not for the benefit of my teacher, but purely for the imrovement of my own academic and analytical skills. to neglect to complete the aforementioned work is therefore not a logical course of action. It is a pity that the writing of tedious lines such as these becomes a necessity, when completing the weekly homework comsumes far less time; however, one must recognise that if one avoids one's responsabilities then there is a consequential outcome which must be faced. hopefully, in future, i will have completed my homework and will not have to repeat this experience"

now this might look like a small paragraph typed out but its practically a page to a kid, and after questioning my children the "five lines" bit at the beginning means to write the whole thing out 5 times - of this they are both certain ( twins in different classes in same year)

i remember having to deal with the drama teacher and asking for the homework policy for my eldest son- i got sent the drama homework policy - which wasn't what i had asked for but you just give up fighting after a while when real life issues tke over and you cant be arsed with petty mindedness such as this. i would much rather they learn something or use their time constructivly as a punishment ( which this time they have managed to avoid) i dont understand the benal insane stupidness of such as excersise - is there any recourse i can take - i know my children have avoided such a punishment this time - but what for those children that have not? i think this writing excersise come from the premis that all children are 'orrible little gits that dont do homework on purpose. i recognise there has to be a system of punishment - but i wonder where the limits are if punishments are set in class.

what to the great mumsnet population think?

But Agy, how can you do the work if you haven't been briefed clearly?

and how can you learn from the lines when you are 11 and don't have a clue what they are going on about!!

Well, they have been briefed now, haven't they. And they only have to do the lines if they don't hand it in tomorrow. I don't think the lines are that difficult for an eleven year old to get the gist of, with a bit of help from Mum! Teachers have to get the work done.

Our 15 year old daughter was given 300 lines last term for twice skipping her homework. My wife was livid but only because she thought the lines were too easy and it should have been an essay! She promised our daughter that next time she was given lines she would request the teacher assigns an essay instead.

Towards the end of last term she was given a 1,000 word essay as a punishment which took her even longer than the lines. So far the threat of another essay seems to have ensured she has completed her homework this term.

thats kinda my point tim - i would rather it be something constructive than a pointless exercise. i know teachers have to give homework. i know they have a hard job. i know they have to get the children to do the homework and i know theu can sometimes work in dificult circumstances - i am not against a punishment - really i am not - lock em up in a cage if you want - just make sure they have a light and they can write something constructive for the time they are there

Blimey custy, do you think the drama teacher has had enough of being laughed at in the staff room for not teaching a "real" subject? This sounds ridiculously old-fashioned and counterproductive, as others have said. I think Scummy's solution sounds perfect. Do you dare...

what exactly is a ' real ' subject then? I have taught Drama, as well as other subjects , for several years and find it very real. It's not just dressing up and running around.It is analysing very demanding literature, considering dramatic theory and loads of other things.Is this not ' real' ? define ' real'.

maybe you think science is for boys and girls should stick to food tech Marina?

Coddy - "I used to set spellings as a punishment " oh the irony
Sorry Custy, I think I'd agree with you on this - completely pointless punishment with no obvious aim.

that was a bit uncalled for Donnie.

I'm going to be a bit daring here.
I can't see the problem and here's why.

1. the lines have not been set - they are a warning that IF the homework is not done on time / adequately, this is the punishment . If you don't like it, do the homework. Fair enough in my eyes.
2. Homework is school policy. It is not the policy of a random teacher who is the only one setting it. I think there have been an awful lot of very harsh comments here about this teacher. Were any of you there? Do you know exactly what has happened? NO! Why is the immediate reaction to be so aggressive and angry?
3. I do no agree at all with parents making comments about teachers / school to their children which will undermine the relationship of pupil / teacher. It is not helpful to anyone. IF a parent has an issue, it should be taken up with the teacher / school and NOT via the child. There, I've said my bit! (running and taking cover...)

I don't have a problem with this punishment either. It's only if they don't do the homework now that the teacher has clarified the instructions that they have to write it out. OK, it's a bit of a time waster but it does try to get the point across that homework is not set for the sheer fun of it.

It may have been better set it how SueW suggested "to write 100 words on the importance of homework, in your own words" but the main point is that if they do the homework this time, they don't have to write the pointless lines.

Donnie, sorry - I work in a drama college and have a degree in the subject, gained through years of similar rubbish spouted from exes, "friends", teachers in other subjects and parents. Should have made that clear. It was a joke that backfired. Don't you think it is unusual for a drama teacher of all people to set such a "bureaucratic" punishment? Mine were all great if unorthodox which is how I got into the subject.

thank you all for your views, all have been considered carefully. its too late however, my children were not given a chance as they thought and were both in detention for misunderstanding the teacher - rather than not doing the homework - because they did do the homework, just not to the specifcs set by the teacher, not becuase they were lazy as i sit with them everynight and do homework.

i'm not going to do anything now but have told my children to ask twice and make sure that they have the correct information to complete their homework in full to the requirements of the teacher - both as i have said before are in different classes and both misunderstood the instructions which to be seemed a little bizarre, plus they haven't had this trouble in any other subject. i do do not agree that parents should not send messages through children and recognise no one including me was actually there, hence why i asked for all your wonderful opinions to help me in my decision.

my daughter prides herself on good work and being top of the class when she can and has come home completely dejected, which i find sad. she also now has not fear of detention and what it means.

but i would like again to say thanks and end on a positive. my children go to a wonderful school with in the main great supportive teachers who i admire greatly. i used great a lot in that sentence - great!

oh dear that is very upsetting custardo. I'm a bit nervous now to say anything and I freely admit that not having kids in the UK system I not up on these things at all. But, I am correct in my understanding that they are now being punished for doing their homework wrong? Were they the only ones who misunderstood the instructions?

sorry that happenend to two of your children custardo, especially as they had actually done the homework. It does seem unfair if they had put in the work. Hope it's a one off and they will understand future homework requests - and if not, ask the teacher asap. I suppose it shows in a small way that the school has high standards, though - and I see you are generally happy with the school so hopefully this is just a blip.

think maybe they have to treat all the kids that don;t do their homework as horrid little oiks or you willjustget other mums ringing up saying their kid has been treated differently - I am sure that the school and the drama teacher understands that your DD is not normally like this and os it won't have a huge impact on her record or anything like that so I wouldn;t really worry.

IMO unless the punishment is really bad or illegal what the teacher decides to do in school is their business - all the teachers I have spokent o said if parents actually worked with them rather than against them telling them what they think and how they should do thier job life would be a lot easier.

Their is a school in Dagenham which has gone from being nearly shut down to being excellent - this was done by making sure the parents backed the schools decisions on everything and so their children understood that there was no point arguing or misbehaving as they would come up against their parents and the school as one united body!!

Sorry but if DD came home with something like this I would say to her to do it this time and if she in future didn;t understand what someone had said she should go and ask them at the end of class or speak to her form tutor about it.

I really think if the instructions weren't clear and if most of the class didn't understand then they weren't then the teacher was at fault, not the pupils and punishment is totally unfair. I think eleven year olds are perfectly capable of realising this for themselves, and this is what will make kids lose enthusiasm and respect, not Custardo (the idea of Custy - "I'd make them dig holes in the road' - being anti-punishment makes me laugh out loud) posting on mumsnet. And I stand by what I said. This particular teacher writes terrible, pompous prose and it would get up my nose just as it clearly got up Custardo's.

But sometimes you don't know what you don't know IYSWIM. The kids might have thought the teacher had asked for one thing when actually she wanted another, for instance, or they might have thought it was clear at the time and not realised the problem until they got home. Seems petty to punish them for this teacher's failure to set a clear brief; did everyone else misunderstand as well?
Personally I wouldn't make a huge thing out of this but I would be fed up with the teacher and keeping an eye out for any future problems. If anything else seemed odd, I'd go and talk to her.

I guess there will always be punishments that are deemed excessive but unless they are outrageously unfair parents have to back the teacher. When our daughter got 300 lines she actually wanted my wife to ring the teacher to complain. Not just about the number of lines but because the sentence she had to write was too long! My wife merely sent her to her room with what seemed like a whole pad of paper and told her to get writing.

Hey Tim, sounds familiar. My parents used to do that to me when I was at school. Felt hard done by at the time. And I'm pretty certain I will follow suit when my DD is at school. You've got to be cruel to be kind sometimes!

Absolutely agree with Edam. Whose prose is miracle of clarity!

Does seem hard - giving a detention for misunderstanding. She should have explained and given them another deadline.