Hight percentage of kids with SEN in private school

[zebraprintpillowcase]

Would you put/keep your kids in a private school that had 40% of kids with SEN?

Additionally, being gifted and talented is also a SEN as it often can’t be catered for in a NT environment and those children often need additional input, skip year groups or go to very selective schools that can cater for them. This is no different to a ASD child having to go to a special school or starting school later due to their needs.

But going back to the original posters point, only you know the situation the school is in and your children’s abilities. Maybe have them sit some practise tests and see how they go, it should give you a good indicator of their levels and how well the school is teaching them.

My ds went to a school like that by accident rather than design. We chose it when he was 3 with the plan that we would move him to the outstanding state nursery at the end of our road when space became available. He settled and seemed to be so happy that we decided to stay until the end of his primary schooling. He was always sat next to the children with ADHD or behavioural issues as he was considered a good influence as he is well behaved and since his prep was obviously not terribly economically diverse we thought it was good for him to spend time with children with learning differences. When he was in year four it was picked up that he had an spld of his own that impacted on reading and writing - the Ed Psych said he was in the top 1% for cognitive scores but on the 18th centile for reading speed. He ended up being offered multiple academic scholarships to v academic London day schools and is thriving at one of them and I am always complimented on how kind and well adjusted he is, which I think is at least in part down to him being at a school where all sorts of children were valued and respected. Of course only you can decide what's best for your children but in our experience academic children are not 'held back' by children with learning differences at all unless the teachers really don't have control of the classroom which may be the case if you are in a school with huge class sizes and no funding for specialist help, but I'd assume that a private prep wouldn't have those problems.

I wouldn't move a child due to %age of SEN.

I work in a private prep with around 40% of children on the SEN register (which is different to our G and T register - though some children are on both - so high IQ alone isn't counted as an SEN by us). The reason is that we are the only prep school in the area that isn't academically selective. So we get all the children whose parents have decided on private education but whose children don't pass the entrance exams. We have also built up a reputation for catering for children with a range of SEN so therefore we continue to get more.

I might consider a move because of the small class sizes and combining though.

It depends.

I can think immediately of one central London private school which probably has a high proportion of SEN. It is less selective so takes kids who were not thriving in either local state schools or indeed very selective private schools. It also took kids with medical issues or those transferring from other educational systems. We know at least two very bright kids, there for specific reasons, who have done very well despite very mixed ability (albeit small) classrooms. I also met a mother who was so so relieved that her child was finally enjoying secondary after hell in a state school with little SEN support.

If your children are happy, I would look instead at your children's ability to maximise their potential. What are exit destinations like? Are some doing very well. Is school work differentiated? Happy children learn, but bright children also need to be stretched.

In terms of bright children having SEN, DD certainly did, indeed an astonishingly spiky profile with lots of top 2% and bottom 2%s. She went to a couple of very selective schools, with no obvious interest in gaming the exam process. Kids getting SEN support, if that is the right expression, was often a broad church. Dyslexics like DD, but also kids with ASD, indeed autism, chronic disorganisation, deafness etc. It would have been nowhere like 40% but children with SEN end up in all types of schools. One noticeable problem with bright kids with SEN is that they often develop good coping skills so it goes unrecognised, till say, they attempt four humanities A levels and start floundering. I understand the same can happen at University.

Rushes off before Bubbles starts hurling insults, as she did last night on another post.

My boys were previously at a very good prep school with a higher than average % of pupils with some degree of SEN. Some of them had been in a state school previously and had struggled for whatever reason - they needed smaller classes due to sensory issues; they hadn't received any support in their state school for dyslexia; they were just plain 'quirky' and the more individualised teaching suited them better. Nearly all of these pupils managed without 1:1 support (my DS1 being an exception - he stayed for 3 very happy years before moving on to a special school). There's a superb full-time senco at the school, which I think is why so many quirky pupils ended up there, because she and her team were able to provide support that, with the best will in the world, usually isn't available in the state sector and not without an EHCP. Very few of them had actual 'learning difficulties' and all pupils in the year group were taught together. I was never aware of any parents or children without SEN who had any concerns about those who did.

DD attended a super selective grammar - she is dyslexic/dyspraxic and one of her classmates was registered blind. Also several students with ASD. Those are just the ones the ones I know about who would have been on the SEN register.

I am well aware that a very clever child might be dyslexic but they are fairly unusual

Total crap. They system tests the very skills they struggle with - that means the system is wrong not the child. Do they tests social skills? Creativity? Out of the box thinking?

Please don’t spout rubbish

In state schools over 17% have SEND and over 4.% have EHCPs.

Can anyone provide stats for the number of children in private education overall (rather than anacdotal data about individual schools) with SEND and ECHPs?

I think this is key given that many parents in the private sector appear to assume that their children would qualify for an ECHP in the state sector and, worryingly, ability to pay for lawyers and educational advocates trumps educational need of children. Lawyers or not you'll still have to go through the appeal and tribunal.

Yes there are children in small private schools with relatively mild SEN who have never been assessed because parents don't want them to fail but largely because the schools argue that no specific intervention is required in small classes. And parents worry that specific intervention will be required in state.

But if you are in this position and seriously considering moving your child to state you need to know what intervention your child needs and who will provide it - specialist teachers, SALT, OT etc - and which support can be provided without an EHCP and where additional funding will be needed or, in severe cases, what sort of placement is needed.

My child will qualify for an EHCP if I move them to state is such an empty threat because 99.9% won't.

To be fair DS2 was an ASD/ADHD with genius EP assessments that couldn't cope with mainstream. Private wouldn't have worked either and specialist was not academic enough. He had an EHCP and I opted for a bespoke package that funded internet school at secondary where he did 11 GCSEs. He then did brick 6th form for A level and is due to start MEng in October.

Sometimes m/s state is not right. Then you are in the territory of finding what specialist education is right. Just because m/s state is not right and you have the financial ability to choose private doesn't mean that your child needs specialist at state expense unless they meet strict criteria.

Some sen children do amazing at private school and require no extra help than neurotypical peers 🤷‍♀️
My own child would be an absolute asset to a private school as she would thrive in a class with less pupils and she's extremely intelligent and would slot right in.
But I cant afford which is unfortunate really.

mixed year group classes where essentially there could be two years difference of capability between the youngest and oldest

composite classes like this are common in state schools. In terms of capability there is likely to be more than two years difference in a normal single year group class. A composite class just adds a bit more.

There are two bigger problems than having composite classes though; the SEN children might only be managing because the classes are small so less overwhelming. But much more than this it suggests there could well be financial problems which would lead me to question the sustainability of the school. For this last reason alone I would be looking at alternatives whilst I am still in a position where I have some choice.

@zebraprintpillowcase for me the concern would be more about the financial difficulties. I don’t suppose you’re in Wiltshire? There is a 3-16 school here with mixed year groups because of low numbers and also a large amount of SEN pupils (including several with EHCPs). Schools like these are likely to be the ones to suffer even more after VAT introduced.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/special-educational-needs-in-england

Some good stats here.

I have a DD in state who is very high IQ (top 1%) and severely dyslexic and has ADHD.

She doesn't have an EHCP because we manage with a lot of great teachers and funding extra help with tutors outside school, and because it feels a bit pointless with only one year left and the years we should have done everything were taken up with Covid lockdowns etc.

If we were to apply, I am 99.9% certain we would get one for her and I probably wouldn't even need to bring in the lawyers. Every single one of her cousins has an EHCP (ASD, ADHD, dyslexic or combo of those) and I'd say she sits in the middle of them in terms of disability and needs due to SEN.

I suspect there are a very large number of children who have parents who are making things work without going down the EHCP route but will now be looking into it. If DD was at a private school I would definitely have already started the process.

This is such an excellent post!

Can anyone provide stats for the number of children in private education overall (rather than anacdotal data about individual schools) with SEND and ECHPs?

Not number of children with EHCPs but a list of independent specialist schools in England and Wales. I doubt many of the children attending these do not have an EHCP or Welsh local authority support. There are a whole lot more children at independent specialist schools in Scotland, though they don’t have EHCPs.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/662ba4a11179821456b81eba/Special_schools_approved_S41_-_April_2024.xlsx

That is just a list of section 41 independents (and those who have left the scheme). It doesn’t include wholly independent special schools (other than those who were previously part of the scheme). There is also non-maintained special schools.