Will reception have a top table?

[charlize]

Can any parents or primary teachers help me with this its been nagging at me since dd started reception 2 days ago.
I have noticed that there are 3 tables each with 5 children on. Iam now paranoid because dd is sitting on the same table as a boy i know has learning difficulties. Meanwhile her 2 friends are sitting next to each other on another table and I know they are both switched on ifkwim.
DD is sitting next to a girl who turned 4 2 weeks ago so I don't imagine she will be too far ahead.

Do they stream this early? Or is the seating just random?

Oh for heaven's sake, these kids are four or five, they're being grouped for practical reasons, not so they can be graded like eggs.

Most reception teachers will group children roughly according to the kind of work they're doing, so that they can work usefully together. A large part of this will be age, as a nearly-five child is effectively 20% older than a just-four child.

Behaviour will often be a factor too, so that children who wind each other up will be put in different groups regardless of level, or a difficult child put with compliant ones in the hope that it might rub off. They will also get mixed around for different activities.

A child will not fail his A levels because the other kids on his table are not the brightest in the class (whatever that means), or because his best friend has a reading book that is two levels higher than his own.

The potential for getting paranoid about one's child's education is almost limitless -- reception is too early to start!

another thing is, and I speak from experience here with my oldest son, where children sit is also down to how they behave with their group. My oldest son was moved around a lot because he liked to chatter and was easily distracted. I'm sure he couldn't always have been placed next to children of similar ablity.

IME the groupings are very fluid at this stage.

forgot to add - my oldest son's year one teacher told me he had no work ethic and was quite dismissive about him. Lots of children did much more work on paper than he did. He was a good talker but didn't produce much. I was worried his more hard working, eager to learn classmates would leave him standing as they moved up the school.

Yesterday we got the results of my son's year 5 streaming tests for secondary school reference. He was a 1A, the top of the five ability bands.
No way could I have confidently predicted that when he was 5 years old.

How sad that you don't think she will learn plenty from sitting next to the child with SN and that you're not proud that they've chosen her as likely to be kind and patient with him

I know your right frogs and I hate feeling this way. Its like alexmum said You just can't help feeling paranoid. I wish I coyld relax and go with the flow But my heart sank when I thought she was being labelled already.
She has a lot of behaviour problems out of school but I have always been told she is an angel in school. Also it wouldn't bother me if she was sitting with her friends at least but she is on a table with a new boy and tw girls she doesn't know very well and she was a bit upset by this.

Davros she doesn't sit next to the boy with learning problems and I wouldn't mind if she did he is a little cracker. He is on the same table.. and this only worried me because I wondered if this meant dd was having problems.
I wouldn't go marching up the school and demand she be removed from the sn boy or anything. God I hope noone thinks I meant that . He is a charming boy and Iam actually having him and his mum over on friday for tea.
Its just that i have often wondered if dd was adhd but I have always been told she is fine and well behaved in school. I was worried if the tables were streamed there was more weight to y worry about her.

Agree with Jimjams. I'm overjoyed at the fact that ds1 has managed to get through his first few days at school without meltdowns or tears. I consider it a highly successful day if he comes out of the classroom with a big smile on his face because then I know he's really enjoyed his time there. Hopefully he'll learn from the other children and they in turn will learn from him.

Oh charlize I'm sorry, I didn't pick up on that. Its hard to know whether to sit back and let the school get on with things or try to address it with the teacher. I have very little experience of m/s schools so can't advise how to handle it, anyone else?

My son's Reception class worked in groups from the start, but I don't think they were related to ability. However the groups were changed after the first term.....I didn't think anything of it until another mother mentioned to me that our 2 children were in the top group for reading (hurrah boast, boast )

The teacher certainly never mentioned it - I think the teachers try very hard not to compare the children to the parents

Don't worry davros
I have posted before about my worries concerning dds behaviour, it is getting to the point where i dare not take her outin public for fear of a complete meltdown.
I have previously consoled myself that at least she is good so iam told in school so therefore nothing must be wrong other than she is a brat
She is defo as far as i can see Not like other 4 yr old girls. She is hyper all the time[except in school]
She is abusive and v angry most of the time towards me and her brother and anyone actually who so much as looks at her the wrong way.
This has led me to worry if her intelct isalso immature as her behaviour certaintly is.
But surely the school would have told me by now if there was??
There is a meeting tonight at the school for new parents so I might broach the subject of seating arrangements or wait and see if anyone else does.

BTW WEll done tigermoths ds!
Its looking good for the grammar school exam.

charlize- something that is often true is that bright children are socially immature- so there certainly doesn't need to be a "link" iyswim.

Are you getting any help for behaviour management? If she responds well in a school environment it may just be that she needs a very structured environment. Lots of warning when things are going to happen, and lots of warning when things are going to end, countdowns "5 more minutes, 1 more minute, 10, 9 ,8,7, 6, 5,4,3,2,1". You can never recreate the structure of school at home but introducing some structure certainly helps ds1. By the end of the holidays the lack of structure had driven him (literally) up the wall (although he had visual timetables etc- it wasn't as structured as school) and his behaviour became quite frenzied. Now he's back at school he's far calmer.

That is a good point jimjams. I have certainly noticed a decline in dd behaviour since the start of the summer hols.
I have tried a lot of the things you suggest, with limited sucsees.
My dhs family make me feel like the worst mother in the world because of dds behavior. They don't even like her coming round to be honest as she can break things etc.
They go on and on about what a marvelous mother sister in law is as her baby is sooo well behaved.
how nice for her. but dd has never been well behaved as such she even cried non stop as a baby . I think they put it down to my bad parenting.

Both of my children were streamed in reception. The children all move around a lot within the first couple of years (rec - yr1) as children change/develop so much within that time.

Ah my SIL has just had a wonderbaby as well charlize NOT coming from SIL at all- talk to her and you get the "normal" view of motherhood iykwim, but according to the MIL. dh gets furious as he thinks the comments come with a parenting assessment attached (and they obviously KNOW ds1 is non-verbal autistic). I just satisfy myself with the knowledge that they are completely unable to cope with ds1 (and I mean really unable to cope) so they are hardly in a position to dish out the judgements. Don't let it get to you. Do talk openly to the school though about concerns - your dd may have ADD or ADHD- she may not- but don't stew on it if its something that is worrying you.

Charlize, what about diet etc? Easier said than done of course and I'd hate to have to get stuck into analysing everything they eat, but if it made a difference..... agree with JJ about structure, countdowns etc and maybe ask for some behaviour management help if you get a chance.

I am a key stage one teacher, and frankly, I am horrified at talk about children sitting at tables at this stage! It actually physicaly hurts such young children to remain seated for significant lengths of time. Surely, the children should be having a free run of the classroom and outdoor area, being able to choose activities, some of which may be table based. Of course, children are expected to sit for teacher inputs for 20-25 mins on the carpet, but in my reception class, there aren't even enough seats for the children to all sit down at at the same time (nor in Year One. )
I know people may argue that in such a play based environment, how do children, particularly those with short attention spans or behaviour problems ever learn to read, write and solve problems - but can assure them that they do! My school has among the highest SATS results in Surrey for both KS1 and KS2. - The children love school, are confident and able. - Do the children in the Reception classes being discussed have that place all day - or is it just somewhere special to sit whilst the register is taken - that is as long as I would expect them to sit for!

Megi

At our school, they don't expect YR to sit for periods at a time. However they do "label" up the tables so that when they come to do "table-based" activities, then they will be placed with children of similar abilities.

I am a volunteer helper in both Reception and Year 1/2 classes. My main job is to take children from Year 1/2 classes out of the classroom to an area where they have "free-play", including things like role-play, junk-modelling, construction, arts and crafts. They do this EVERY morning for an hour.

In Reception, I supervise their outdoor play in the morning. At our school, they play outside for 45 minutes every morning - riding bikes, playing in the playhouse, water/sand play etc. They are free to wander from outside to indoors and to go into the other Reception class.

Reception is very much "free-play" - so far this week, my DD has been playing in the "home corner", lots of painting and water play.

They probably sit for a maximum of 10 minutes at a time doing a "table-based" activity - but from observing I do think "streaming" according to abilities does work - there is no point providing an activity to a group on the Number 10 when some of them are still struggling with Number 2.

And like yours, our school does very well in the SATS league and is very hard to get into.

For example, DD1 (just gone into Year 4) is already obtaining Level 5s in her "optional!!" SATS.

I agree Slinky!
We have focus activities every day which are carried out by the teacher, TA and parent helpers - each child would on average complete about 3 focus activities a day - which would take between 10 -20 mins. Some of these would require the child to record, but some activities might be more observation based. Most of these would be differentiated according to ability. Therefore, a child who is good at maths but weak in literacy would be able to complete a challenging maths task, but an easier literacy task. - I got the impression that some of these reception classes had just made a blanket over-all judgement of ability.

DD1's reception class (she has just gone into Year One) was definitely "grouped". It was great for the bright ones, they just stormed ahead but those who had English as a second language, or summer birthdays were often just left to play and didn't learn much.

DS1s reception class was like you described Megi. It also has a nice high place in the SATS league tables, heavily oversubscribed and is a beacon school. It was never noticably streamed although I guess the teacher could have been giving more challenging tasks to the more able children and other tasks to bring out the best in summer born/late developers.