"The great private school rip-off"

[CountessDracula]

Interesting article here

i dont know whether this is a kent thing but there are quite a few private special schools (for SN)

I'm really not asking you to defend your decision for one second hmb, I'm just rather bored with features in the Guardian by writers saying, "oh, the state sector is soooo marvellous. Perfect for everyone else's kids but not right for my very, very special one etc" At least this feature was, I thought, quite honestly written. The others stuff reminds me of Diane Abbot goes on about the hypocrisy of everyone choosing private education, then does it herself, but says, guess what, her kid is so special and different that he needs private education. Spit!

Re Private schools for SN, I can see the need tbh, I'm just saying they won't be topping the league tables. The private schools that do are all selective, by income for sure, and in the vast majority of cases by entrance exam too.

I am just struck that when people post and ask 'What school will be best for my child?' The advice given, excellent advive IMO, is go visit them and see which one suits your child and choose that one.

Now guess what? That is just what I did for my kids. But because I chose to send mine to a pivate school that I felt suited them, this means, according to some posters, that I have done it because I am a snob, or like the uniform. Parents make the choices that they feel are best for their kids. I have done the same. So some of the posters have insulted me a little!

I don't feel I have to justify my choice, I did what was best for my kids, plain and simple. And unless you are happy to send your kids to the local school, regardless of what it is like, you have done the same as me, try to do the best by your kids.

And Diane is wrong in part. Bits of the state sector are not marvelous, they are crap. And for that matter, so are some private schools.

I went to an "excellent" comprehensive and got excellent results - but would probably say it was worse school in terms of all round education than the one my mum taught in, which had a much more mixed catchment. At my school, if you were academic, they nrtured you, if you weren't, they ignorred you. They got away with it because it was in a high achieving, middle class area, where the parents only cared about exam results.

While I agree with a lot of what both Oldiemum and Uhu have said, I also agree with what hmb has said. You CAN have principles that you would LIKE to apply, but can't, becasue of the particular circumstances of your local school. If my ds doesn't get his placing request, he WILL have to go to a private school - as even the headteacher of his catchment primary discourages "white" kids from going to ger school! Up here in Scotland, we only get the opportunity to make one "placing" request - it's not as if I can pick a range of (perfectly respectable) primary schools that are a wee bit further away. It's just a function of living beside (and the catchment primary being IN) the largest Asian community in Scotland.

And before anyone accuses me of being racist - the school we would like to get him into is also largely/majority Asian - but not 98-100%! And he wouldn't be the only one who speaks English!

I have now been back at school 3 days this week - comp, special measures, 28% GCSE grade pass rate, and now a reducing roll numbers. Behaviour is makor issue and holding back lots of classes. Teachers have been reguarly verbally abused, some physically. We have over 1/3 of teaching staff who are new this year - lots left last summer. I did resign but have agreed to do 2 days a week for them as they could not replace the ICT staff - only 2 applicated for 2 posts, including HoD, both not suitable at all. So no HoD for ICT, or for 2 other departments. Several long term supply teachers here. Parental involvemnet is limited. Often school sanctions are not supported by parents. Parent's evenings get less than a 40% uptake. I could go on....

So I have to agree - some bits of the state sector are not marvellous at all. And for some schools it'll take a long time to get them back on track too.

I know some people aren't so fortunate as to have a choice but, GIVEN A CHOICE, would I send my child there?

NO! Very simply. Our catchement primary where we live is similar in standard to the school I now teach out. DD is not going there - for many reasons. She is currently on the list for a private prep school. However our apartment is on the market and she may go to state IF (and only if) we manage to move to a house with a good catchment school. I am lucky that I have that choice I know, but I don't believe that people with tht option and who choose to follow that option should be made to feel bad and to have to justify it.

"Daniela Thacker, a secondary school teacher from Birmingham, said: "My kids smell so bad it's tough to teach them. It's difficult to make them understand simple standards.

"At the start of each lesson I have to open all the windows and spray the room with air freshener to make teaching bearable."

I had this in one of my sixth form classes 2 years ago. The lad had a huge problem when he was going to the toilet and appeared to be unable to clean himself It was vile. He was spoken to, and his parents were - on several occasions. There were no medical problems at all , just poor hygenie. It never was resolved. I just had air freshner for when he'd left.

Most of my 'fragrant' kids are in Y8 and 9. the hormenes kick in and the sweat beings to smell in a way that doesn't seem to happen with the smaller kids. I have a coupe who come into school with clothes that are filthy and I know that lots are asked to shower by the pE staff. Breaks your heart.

Another factor for me in choosing the private school for dd was the fact that i thought she'd probably be picked on in the state school for where she lives.
We are not millionares but live in a nice detached house and since we moved here i've had SO many comments like
"lady muck"
"I'll have to wear my lady clothes to visit"
"you're so spoilt"
"OOH you're like Victiria Beckham!"
"what do you DO all day in that big house?"

Look after my daughter the same as any other mam!!
WHAT THE F*!!

That's why the reverse snobbery thing gets me so much and it's constant here Up North! It WAS a big thing for me as i didn't want dd to feel the odd one out.

Before you all jump down my throat i swear it's true and I KNOW i'm very lucky. (NOW wasn't always). There wa a thread on here not so long ago bout someone not wanting to be freinds with this woman as she'd found out she had money and lived in a big house!
I am not feeling sorry for myself but that would be the case here. People already think i'm a snob as i've lived away half my life and don't have a broad accent.

Can't beleive i pressed send then

Don't shoot me, i hnestly beleive it!

Angeliz, its the same down here, my rich friend (who i am ashamed to say intimidated me because i thought she was rich) was saying people dont like to go round for coffee because she lives in a BIG HOUSE!!! its bloody ridiculous

thanks fio2.!!!!

Thought i was gonna get shouted at! Glad you agree.
I honestly don't like inviting people here.(The daft thing is i cryed for ages when we left our cottage, we only moved for the garden for dd!)

I did not mean to offend anyone who decides to send their kids to private school because everyone should be free to do as they choose without having to justify it. It is just people like that idiotic journalist who make my blood boil with their snobbery and condenscending attitude towards the masses. Additionally, many of the privately educated people that I interacted with at university have coloured my opinion (wrongly I suppose) and made me determined to ensure that my children do not turn out like them, i.e disingenuous, conceited and patronising. Again, I'm not saying that everyone who goes to private school is like this but I guess I had the misfortune to be subjected to those people who displayed all these unpleasant characteristics. When I started university, the privately educated crew wanted nothing to do with people like me but when they realised that I was always coming near the top with respect to exams and assignments,they gathered around me like flies. I soon told them where to go though !

People are people in my experience, good, bad or indifferent. Going to either type of school doesn't make you good or bad. I went to university with a massive chip on my shoulder, and felt at the time that people who were from private schools were priviledged and were only there because of the schools pushing them/nepotism. Imagine my surprise when I found out that a lot of them were very bright, far brighter than me! One of my mates at university was from Eton. He was one of the brightest people that I have ever met in my life, and is now a consultant eye specialist at moorfields. I'm a science teacher! Nothing to do with class, everything to do with ability and application

Most of the private special schools are still LEA funded though fio and a battle and a half to persuade the LEA to fund a place there. At the rate their shutting LEA special schools its all that will be left soon!

The thing about the choice we made bundle (ie not choosing the top of the league table school and instead looking for one lower down) is that we will send ds2 to the same school. The top of the league table school achieves its position by selectively booting the SN kids (and they do get away with it- even someone employed by the LEA told me they were notorious for making life very difficult for SN children). DS1's school copes with him because they are willing to treat every child as an individual. It's a very caring school- and so will be ideal for ds2 as well. Sod the league tables I pay very little attention to them. (I used to teach in a tutorial college that was always near the top of the league tables- and there are always ways of achieving that if you are sly!)

dont say that jimjams, i am hoping my dd will stay in her special school until she is 19

actually i think thats what that woman was on about in morrisons about her dyslexic daughter. i was so taken about that a 'stranger' has come up to me and knew so much about me I was a bit and

There are some private schools that specialise in dyslexia (I mean normal private schools - not the pivate company LEA paying for places one). There's also one that specialises in dyspraxia, although I think LEA's often fund places there.

Don't worry too much- the right mainstream school can work- ds1's is working (at the moment).

hmb, not sure if you are responding to me, but my post was in no way at all an attack or even a response to yours. I understand you feel sensitive about it, but really, I wasn't talking about you at all.

My dp went to a wonderful private prep school, one of the most famous public schools for secondary.. He got binned out for being wicked. He has no qualifications.

I went to a state school and have three A'levels, a degree and a professional qualification.

He does however sound far better educated than me and people always surprised to find out which one is educated!!

Aloha, no what I said was 'I am just struck that when people post and ask 'What school will be best for my child?' The advice given, excellent advive IMO, is go visit them and see which one suits your child and choose that one.' And that is true for poster to Mumsnet right up to the point where they choose a Private school.

The right to pick a school that suits your child is taken as read by most, if not all, posters. But some posters seem to feel that if you think the best school is a private one this is because you have put a value on having a 'poncy' uniform or you want your child to be a snob.

I wasn't answering your points in particular. It just seems strange that the writer of the article was lambasted (rightly imo) for making fun of polyester jumpers (which my kids also wear btw) and then another poster feels that it is OK to have a go at private uniforms calling them 'twatty'. Sauce for the goose and all that.

For what it is worth I think the writer of the artice is a snob and a very silly one at that. But that doesn't make me a snob just because I have shared her choice in schoolong andy more than it makes all journalists snobs for sharing her choice of job.

having experience of both the German school system (I lived there until age 17, my mum's a director of education and was a primary school head for many years) I can say with some experience that the English state school system, at least at primary level, is miles, miles better than the German one.
For instance, special needs provision in Germany is at least 15 years behind the UK - we thought of moving to Germany but decided not to because getting dd with SN into a mainstream school would have become a battle we'd probably lose, whereas here it's a non-issue.
Germany has no open inspection system - a school may be totally crap, known to the LEA as being poor, but you as a parent will only find this out through the grapevine, not by reading a concise ofsted report available to everyone.
Most teachers in Germany have a civil servant status which makes them virtually unsackable, so the really awful ones just get passed from school to school and you might just end up with someone who is basically insane and doesn't believe in teaching the curriculum (as I did for two years) and nothing can be done.
Having a child in the first two years of German primary school means that you have to kiss your job good-bye or find very good childcare, as children only have a few lessons in the morning and will probably only spend 3 hours in school each day.
My mum has been on a lot of exchange visits to primary schools in England (in really deprived areas usually, Bootle near Liverpool springs to mind as having a super primary school) and is always amazed by the excellent behaviour of the children and the lovely classrooms with home corners etc.
Germany also did very badly in a big study comparing education standards internationally - England did well, but for some reason you never read about it in any of the English papers!
I think there is a tendency in this country to think that things are bad, when really they're average to good. For instance the rail system - yes it's far from perfect, but it's no better in most other European countries. Same goes for state education.

THat is very interesting gg, thank you for posting it.