In Plain English please - when is it correct to use an apostrophe?

[MascaraOHara]

I know I'm a bit silly but I've always wondered if I get it right and I dare not ask anyone in RL but sometimes when I see "...Oh and that rogue apostrophe" (or something similar) and I look at the poor old rogue apostrophe thinking quietly to myself but how do I know you're a rogue(?)

I obviously missed a very important lesson when I was in primary school.

Thank you please don't tut at my stupidity.

mmm, that makes it sound like dh owns me! I don't think I like that!

Oh I get confused about that as well

Not sure about the double S thing, to be honest. I always thought it should be ss', but I have seen ss's.

You can do either- after 30 years of teaching English I have seen every variation on this!

You can say Charles's or Charles' - the latter is better as it looks neater.
This is the only time the apso. can be used after an s on the end of the word and not mean plural possession.

Words ending in double ss should have the apos. as normal- Ross's. You need to keep the double SS to give the correct sound to the word- and need another to show the "belonging to."

I had some work to do. now I'm back but too tired and p'd off to think about this now lol. Thanks for your help I will do my homework tomorrow

possession and a missing letter

As bb says.

So "it's" means it is. Just as can't means cannot.

The biggest error is saying the dog bit it's tail. There is no apostrophe in the possessive (it owns it) its. If you do that you are writing the dog bit it is tail.

At our local salvation army old clothes donation box it says men's clothes, children's clothes and ladies clothes. Amuses me they got the men and children right but not the ladies. That should be ladies' - apostrophe after the s but no second s as it ends in an s. So you would go "the dogs' home" if you meant the home of several dogs of "the dog's home" if you meant the home of one dog but never the dogs's home for plural dogs.

Right I need help with one please.

What day is it on Sunday? Is it Father's Day or Fathers' Day or Fathers Day?

I think gly in right too but I prefer it my way. You do see St James's Park in London, not St James' but most people with those ses at the end of words would just put the apostrophe and not the second s.

It's usually regarded as one father and it is his day so Father's Day.

Thanks!

On the subject of James, my dh is a James and I always say James's cup or whatever, never James' cup. Personal preference I guess with that.

Does this help with the possessive thang:

Think about who the car/cars/whatever belong to. Write down that word, then put an apostrophe at the end of it, and an s, UNLESS the word already ends in s.

So...

About some cars that belong to a woman:
The woman's cars.

About some cars that belong to more than one woman, i.e women:
The women's cars.

About some cars that belong to a boy:
The boy's cars.

About some care that belong to some boys:
The boys' cars.

Hope this helps

Advanced bonus example:
Cars belonging to a family called Evans (i.e. en masse they would be called the Evanses):
The Evanses' cars.

Lio- sorry to disagree, but I don't think anyone would write Evanses' as correct English. Evans is a family name and therefore implied plural/collective noun anyway- a group of people. You would write Evans' and the apostrophe would go after the S.
Some words do add es in the plural- e.g fish, fishes, and the plural would be fishes', but you don't change proper nouns by adding es to the plural, in the way that you would to a common noun, as it completely distorts the name. You might SAY Evans' as Evanses' when speaking, but you wouldn't write that.

Yes, glyn is right. I would write
I have change the fishes' water; but if one fish had died it would be "I have changed the fish's water".
The other one you see wrong sometimes is childrens'. Children is plural so it would always be children's.

oh help me please me!

Sorry Mascara - can I hijack with my thing becuase i have a meeting next week and someone has made an outward show to the whole group (as in forwarded round to point out my 'rogue apostrophe') I think that her solution is best but I want to say something so it doesn't look like I just rammed it in.

I wrote:

We aim to provide a safe, nurturing and stimulating physical environment with good continiuty between other educational settings and the local community; coupled with a strong emphasis on partnership with parents' and carers' and their invovlement in their child's edcuaiton.

She took out my apostrophes on parents and carers as it is a plural but I wrote it as a possesive of the children's education. I deep down think it is best to leave them out because it won't be seen as a mistake - however I need to put in a quick justification when in the meeting as it has pissed me off somewhat.

Sorry BBB - the way you've written it, neither parents nor carers needs an aps.

'We aim to provide a safe, nurturing and stimulating physical environment with good continiuty between other educational settings and the local community; coupled with a strong emphasis on partnership with parents' and carers' and their invovlement in their child's edcuaiton. '

The possession is shown by your use of their - just before child's education.

Sorry ...

am I the only dunbass who is trying to work out what is missing from Halloween to need an apostrophe

ooo is it hallowed evening??

cripes, I feel dumb

Think it is Hallows Eve as All Hallows Day is All Saints' Day and Halloween/Hallowe'en is All Souls' Day. Actually surely that would make it Hallow'e'en?

poo - thanks trinity - now at least I know to keep my head down rather than argue myslef into a deeper hole of my own ignorance!

You need to ask what is belonging to what- the education you are talking about belongs to the CHILD not the parents or the carers.
It is not the carer's education or the parent's education). Or the parents' or carers' if you mean more than one parent or carer.

You could have parents' (or parent's )involvement.

The confusion is becuae you have 2 separate clauses - one is about parents' involvement, the other is about the child's education- you need to separate them out.

"with a strong emphasis on partnership with parents' and carers'"
What you need to do is take sentences apart rather than look at whether there is something later in the sentence. That is what confused you. If you take that bit above on its own you are saying - "partnership with parents". Not "partnership with parents' nannies or partnership with parents' cars" when you would need the apostrophe.

Amusingly locally there is an association for residents where we live. It has the same name as the one on the local council estate. Ours has the correct apostrophe and theirs doesn't. You can do the same test at signs in state and private schools and sometimes you will see state schools say "visitors parking" whereas private schools would always say "visitors' parking" (the parking belongs to the visitors). But why should that be? Why in 2007 do you have to buy the ability for you children to learn proper grammar? It should not be a class and educational divide.

You don't need to look as far as schools- I am pretty sure that Sainsbury's doesn't use the apostrophe, depsite being owned by Lord Sainsbury! Or W H Smith's??

And it is only very recently that supermarkets- and not all even now- have got rid of their "Five items or LESS" at the quick tills, and replaced it with the correct "Five items or FEWER"!

I amamazed at the number of politicians, journalists etc etc inthe media who don't know the difference.

They should all have a copy of Lynn Truss' "Leaves, shoots ..." which is the modern guide to grammar and punctuation...and no, I don't have it, I have a much older little book called "Mind the stop".

The missing letter is v - Halloweven.