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Physics GCSE: 'insultingly easy, non scientific, and vague'

68 replies

DominiConnor · 12/06/2007 15:25

The Arts graduates strike up another victory against the teaching of science

As a footnote to this article Lucy Sherrif herself holds a highly respectable degree in Physics.

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Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 10:53

frances - my partner is absolutely brilliant at looking at pages of figures from his business and zooming in on the incoherences. He always says that the skills that made him good at physics are the skills that make him good at analysing his business so quickly and efficiently . He can just understand the mechanics of it so clearly.

Judy1234 · 18/06/2007 11:22

I tried to put my daughter off science A levels because they are harder to get higher grades in. The degrees are harder work too. Tends to lead to lower paid jobs too if you do anything related to the degree.

My father did a physics degree in about 1946/7 because there was no state funding and his father couldn't afford to send a second sone to medical school but I do think it helped him even when he was able to go on to study medicine. It was an exciting time to do physics he said anyway because of all the developments during and after WWII.

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 11:39

Xenia - that's interesting. Here in France it is harder to get higher grades in arts subjects. Basically the science subjects use the full range of the marks spectrum (1-20) whereas arts/essay writing subjects tend to hover in the middle and it's much harder to get outstanding grades.

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 11:41

Oh, and if you want any kind of decent job in France, science/maths are vital. The only exception I can think of here are lawyers - where the non-quantitative ambitious students go.

Judy1234 · 18/06/2007 11:45

Yes but France is weird.

Just look at this..

"American learns how the French teach English
Adam Sage in Paris

An American has rocked the educational establishment of France by daring to challenge the way that English-language teachers are trained for the classroom.

Laurel Zuckerman has split the academic world with a book that relates her experience at the heart of the archaic French teacher-training system. Her account reveals the extraordinarily arcane and ar-guably irrelevant questions asked of would-be English teachers. And it highlights the ambivalence of the country?s approach to English, which is seen, at best, as a necessary evil.

Sorbonne Confidential, published in February and now a bestseller, has proved highly controversial, with critics denouncing what they have interpreted as an attack on les lycées,one of France?s proudest institutions. But supporters have written to thank Mrs Zuckerman for challenging the lofty academic ideals of the lycées, which they say deprive pupils of the practical tools that they need to succeed in the global market.

The two sides have engaged in a ferocious debate about the merits of the French educational system. One discussion forum on an internet site that was aimed at the country?s intellectual elite had to be shut down amid a tide of insults.

Mrs Zuckerman?s book was inspired by her own failed attempt to obtain a qualification to teach English in France. The 47-year-old from Scotts-dale, Arizona, had expected that her anglophone origin would be an advantage. But after a year on a teaching course at the Sorbonne in Paris she realised that she had been mistaken. ?I have come to the conclusion that native English speakers are actually at a disadvantage,? she said.

A finely honed Cartesian mind and a firm grasp of the French language are among the qualities that are required of les professeurs d?anglais, she discovered. The ability to teach or even speak English is not, however. ?They are excluding people who don?t have the right mindset,? she said. ?It?s a way of protecting themselves.?

Mrs Zuckerman, a computer expert, decided to go into teaching after being made redundant by an internet company in 2002. The result was a journey through a system that, she has claimed, was designed to retain only the most erudite of candidates and eliminate the rest. During her one-year course at the Sorbonne, for example, she was required to write a dissertation in French on ?The meaning of time and the time of meaning?.

Mrs Zuckerman was indignant at the nature of the assignment. ?I can understand that you need to speak enough French to communicate with parents, pupils and other staff in schools,? she said. ?But what possible use can it be to be able to write a dissertation??

Her professors at the Sorbonne were brilliant, although not necessarily in speaking English. One of them, for instance, had the worst pronunciation of English that she had ever heard.

Another was bemused by the term ?ruffled shirts?. And an education inspector criticised one of Mrs Zuckerman?s British friends for talking about ?ducks?. ?She said plural of duck is duck ? and if an inspector in France says it?s two duck, then it?s two duck.?

Mrs Zuckerman?s literature class was also a surprise, with students asked, for example, to recite the works of Robert Burns, the 18th-century Scots poet, including To A Louse, which begins ?Ha! whare ye gaun? ye crowlin ferlie? ? Mrs Zuckerman asked: ?Whatever the brilliance of Robert Burns, what has that got to do with what children need to learn??

At the end of the year, Mrs Zuckerman and two British students on the course failed the exams because their marks in the papers in French were significantly lower than the average. But in her book, she points out that French lycées are failing at English teaching. In a European study of standards in several countries ? Sweden, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands, Denmark and Spain ? they came last.

Mrs Zuckerman said: ?There is an incredible intellectual taboo in France, which makes it impossible to draw a link between the way they recruit their teachers and the results of the students.?

Foreign tongue

Questions for aspiring teachers of English in France:

1 Recite and discuss the following verse from To a Louse by Robert Burns: Ha! whare ye gaun? ye crowlin ferlie? Your impudence protects you sairly, I canna say but ye strunt rarely Owre gauze and lace, Tho faith! I fear ye dine but sparely On sic a place

2 Explain the devolution of powers to Scotland and Wales between 1966 and 1999

3 Specify and justify the placement of intonation nuclei in the following sentence: ?She thought, well, that?s the lot, but what shall I do with all this weight stuff now??

4 Explain the stress pattern of the following words: miraculously, sensuality, pornography

5 Account for the quality of the vowels in the stressed syllables in literature and primitives

6 In seven hours, write a dissertation on ?The meaning of time and the time of meaning?

DominiConnor · 18/06/2007 11:47

It's a fair point about the death of British manufacturing deleting a large number of physics jobs.
But that's not such a bad thing. The reason manufacturing died was that it treated it's smart people so badly.
But the training is of itself useful, but in less than obvious ways.
I recall a funny conversation I had with a PhD physicist at Oxford who was modelling galaxy formations. He obviously thought it was a wind up of some form.
It took a little effort to persuade him that there probably was no better subject to study in terms of getting rich.

I hear all this bollocks about Branson and Sugar. But as a scientists, turned city type turned pimp I see "survivorship bias".
Most entrepreneurs crash and burn, indeed Branson has had some hairy times.
But we don't hear about the failures.

According to our research, the single most common degree for newly minted millionaires in the UK was physics. Approximately 1700 last year.

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Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 11:50

Oh I know. I am English through and through, have a first class degree in French and Spanish with distinction from Bristol University... (plus two further degrees but not relevant for this purpose) and the only language I could get an exemption from redoing a (French) university degree in view to taking a secondary teaching qualification is... Spanish. Which I can barely still speak, whereas my English and French are fluent.

It's protectionism, another famed French characteristic.

Lilymaid · 18/06/2007 12:10

One of the reasons France still produces plenty of physics etc graduates is that the elite want to go to the Grandes Ecoles and many of these are training people to work in technology. Those that don't get into the Grandes Ecoles are increasingly moving to the UK to take up work (or is it just DH's firm where this happens) where there are too few qualified UK technologists and most staff now have to be recruited from outside the UK. Working in engineering is apparently 10th in the list of most wanted graduate jobs amongst UK Engineering undergraduates.

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 12:21

Lilymaid - science and maths have traditionally been far more highly valued in France than any arts or humanities subjects, and higher education reflects this. But interestingly enough there is now more emphasis on French and English in the "moyenne générale" (a school pupil's average mark, which is a weighted average) than in the past.

Enid · 18/06/2007 12:21

oi british manufacturing isnt completely dead

Enid · 18/06/2007 12:22

and manufacturing has been decimated in this country due to cheap imports, no other reason

FioFio · 18/06/2007 12:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 12:33

Manufacturing assembly has been hugely reduced in the UK due to globalisation. But manufacturing design is still quite healthy. Critically, Western countries need to retain their edge in design.

Enid · 18/06/2007 12:37

yes I would say that is fair

designing here then getting things made in Far East

some things are still made here though - shame the supermarkets refuse to stock them from a price POV though

fluffyanimal · 18/06/2007 12:41

Just catching up on the thread's progress since I last posted.

DC - you've lost me again with the stupid comment about some "war" being won by arts people. The degree subjects of those in power don't come into it. Only money does. For the same reason, universities have closed e.g. Arabic departments - and surely there is no more important time than now to do an Arabic degree?

Speedymama, I agree 100% with you about transferable skills from a degree. In fact universities are being made to state explicitly the generic and transferable life/career skills in all their degree programmes, and to make the students aware of them so that they can highlight them to potential employers. I wish people wouldn't think so much in the mindset of whether they can "use" their degree in their job afterwards. They will in one way or another.

Xenia, I think you did a disservice to your daugher by discouraging her from studying something that is perceived as hard. What kind of message does that send to our children?

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 12:45

fluffyanimal - I quite agree with your message to Xenia. Why discourage children from studying hard subjects?

I wish more women knew more maths and economics. I think that is one of the ways feminism can move forward

speedymama · 18/06/2007 12:47

Manufacturing in the UK is far from dead as this demonstrates.

Manufacturing has changed, but it is not dead. So once again DC, you have spouted rubbish because smart people are driving and implementing the changes in the manufacturing sector.

DominiConnor · 18/06/2007 14:01

Depends what you mean by dead, doesn't it ?
There's twitches in the corpse, but it what's left is a rump, dying on it's feet.

If you're going to cite links, perhaps you should read them first ?
Prospects is an advertising puff piece, if you were to believe thist siter, there is simply no career path of any kind which doesn't lead to wealth and fame.
I do credit Prospects with excellent skill in spin. The number of good jobs in manufacturing is really very small.
They also include Biotech and Drugs.
You reckon that's an honest take on things ?

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