how do you afford private school fees?

[beautifulgirls]

I am interested to know how you afford private school fees? Are you lucky enough to have a good household income or do you subscribe to any of the school fees investment schemes that exist? If you subscribe, how good are they, which do you use? We will make sure we afford it for our kids, but it will stretch us on our current income unless we can make the money go further somehow. I fully intend to work more hours once they start school so that should help too, but things are not always that simple.

They are hugely expensive around us - esp the ones which will take boys - we have 2 girls only and 4 co-ed - the one we are considering for both our children seems to be HUGELY expensive but all the other co-eds are the same - we're in the SW - its £4175 for a yr 4 and £2500 for a year 1 PER TERM - good grief....the other co-eds are the same price...excpet for one known as the grammer crammer (uggg) where they practice endless 11+ papers form year 4 and have to eat their packed lunches at their desks. DCs are both at state primary down the road in the village but year 1 has no teacher and will only muster up a series of supply teachers and ds has v low concentration levels and is struggling in the middle of the class - we can afford it - but only becasue I work part time - whether we will is a tricky one - bu am teetering on shattering my dream of a great lcoal village community education becasue after 4 years of trying it -it just isn't that great...

We have always paid out of income as I started having babies at 22 and we both always worked full time. Hardest times have been full time nanny for youngest plus 2 school fees for oldest type of periods.

My ex husband (we were still married then) only had to pay 15% of one child's fees but I believe the girls' schools offered teachers virtually no discount so very much depends on the private school. We know a couple where they got 3 children through prep school to age 13 paying just the 15% where husband worked and then to age 18 at a leading boarding school for a similar discount. Makes their 2 teachers' full time wages (plus staff accommodation so they had no mortgage) actually a better deal than people realise teaching can be.

Then my son got a music scholarship at 12 so that helped with a discount on the fees. Also when I was in my 20s paying school fees we did things like holiday at Butlins, very cheap shopping bill, all uniform second hand etc etc.

With the twins I had more money so it wasn't so much of an issue. Our divorce order says whoever the children live with I pay the school and university fees... lucky me.

By the way although occasionally I have found grandparents paying when I was at a private school and a few since we certainly didn't find loads doing that around here.

On whether you invest and pay out of that depends when you have your children and what you afford. I think my brother who is starting all this with his wife over 40 has had 20 years or something to get ready. I had zero and they do have savings if they have to use them to fund some fees.

I think the suggestion of extra money earning is good too below. We have done all kinds of thing - teacher husband working on other job in school holidays, private teaching, me writing books, marking exam papers etc etc Today is Sunday. I am working.

I don't think you do, at least we don't. Will flogg my original home for university fees, unless anything else happens beforehand.

I certainly buy fewer clothes than I did. But I've usually in life found it much easier to earn more money than cut back on spending.

Loads in today's Sunday Times and Sunday Telegraph about schools - much less social mobility (and why?) and City Academies which both parties support and just seem to be comps with nutters or businesses partly funding them.

We've thought about this, and there is just no way we could afford it. With three of them, (and we would like another), at some point all three of them would be paying school fees, so if you look at fees being about 8k a year without extras, that's 24k a year. There is just NO way we could find that, even if I went back to work full time - as a musician there really aren't very many jobs that could pull in 30k (which is what we would need before tax). And then there are extras - uniform, trips etc.

I went to private school, and then a public school for sixth form, but had a scholarship for the private, and in the sixth form my mum worked there, so had 66% off fees, a 50% music scholarship and a £2500 academic scholarhip!!! Work that one out!

Bet the Telegraph doesn't cite sport as a reason for the decline in social mobility.
If I see one more black sportsman put up as a "role model" for black boys I shall vomit.

TS, not sure what you did but my ex has been in charge of music departments etc - couldn't you do that too in private schools and get very cheap places or would you need to do the teacher training bit too?

DC can't remember exactly what it says - but it says things like in Sweden etc not that hard to move from bottom of 5 classes to top of 5 as there is less difference. If the difference in income between 5 classes in one country is say £1000 a year then of course it's easy to move up or down. If the differences are much bigger as here then not surprisingly harder.

It also says possibly social mobility is only needed if you have an unfair society and barriers. If we have reached fairness as it were then all that is left is the huge differences at birth people have in terms of IQ etc so in a fair equal society with equal opportunities once all that is assured then the differences left are those ones you are born with which can't be removed however good the school so inevitably unless I suppose you could clone us all with the same IQ and drive etc you will always have differences and in face the fairer the system now is the less social mobility you will have as the incompetent thick dregs as it were (not their language) will remain where they are and the bright as a button very poor clever ones will have the opportunities. That was just part of it.

Telegraph.. I can't do links. It is home page of telegraph.co.uk today.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=W1411HGVSVZ0HQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/05/20/nrclass20.xml

link

Thanks. Part of it says
"There is, however, an increasing amount of evidence that this is not true. "Just about all the research that has been done on this topic demonstrates that intelligence is not randomly distributed across society," says Ben Sacks, a former professor of psychiatry at Charing Cross Hospital. "Intelligent, well-educated women tend to marry intelligent, well-educated men, and they tend to have intelligent children who end up being well-educated.

"About 50 per cent of the variation in intelligence between individuals is inherited. But the cultural and motivational background intelligent parents provide is at least as important as the genes they bestow. The brain is in some ways like a muscle: it responds to being used. The greater stimulation that a child gets from growing up in a home where his or her parents value education and intellectual pursuits has an enormously significant effect on that child's intellectual development.""

I just got a job at the school I would like ds to go to - but somehow I don't think that what I will earn in 1.5 hours a week is going to make a difference.

A discount would be nice though.

There was a test tax case called Pepper v Hart years ago which said as long as the school charged the marginal extra cost of haing your child';s bottom on its seat (which they put at 15% then you wouldn't be taxed 40% of the £25k a year benefit at say an expensive boarding school). So we paid 15% and no tax on the benefit. At my daughters' schools where my husband did not teach, I think there was virtually no teacher discount however so it's highly variable.

Age 4 - 18 3 children even at £10k a year fees only - the case I mentioned below they had 3 boarding so was worth more, even at day rates that perk is £420,000 I think over those years at that rate.

It's a good blind test for Guardian readership, even if the leftie has a science education she will insist very vocally that intelligence is not inherited. Anything that even resembles scientific literacy will tell you that genes are a big part of intelligence.

However, of course the Telegraph has a "view" of what counts as intelligence, one that fits the prejudices of it's readers as the wilful ignorance of Guaridianista.

I think that quote if probably about right - IQ about 50% what we inherit - see lots of studies of adopted and genetic children in the same homes but also the other very important 50% your home and in teenage years peers, environment etc.

Actually what surprised me was the earlier and 2007 figures are not anything like as stark as I thought - was it 19% then and 16% now? That's not a huge change for the worse.

Actually it's "variance" in IQ that has the approximately 50% of effect. Nearly all of intelligence is based upon genes, else trees could be taught maths.

Variance or whatever, doesn't tell us the whole story. There is a curve. Most people are near the middle, (like plotting heights) and the maths for this sort of distribution is such that you can throw a big change at it, and have very little effect upon the average.
Without getting too much into arm waving, average people will stay about the same unless you do something big.
3% out of 16% is about 20%, and that's a colossal effect to have. So large that I begin to question the source.
If true, "normal" effects aren't in the game here, we are into the realms of serious widespread water contamination across the country, or the equivalent of everyone in Scotland (and possibly Wales too) waking up one morning with an IQ of zero.

So when I said the 3% difference hardly mattered between those from poor homes who used to get to university and those fewer who do now, it actually is quite big and perhaps so big it's even wrong?

Beautifulgirls - those school fee investment schemes don't have an especially good reputation - and as one of your posters suggested - probably need to be started pretty young to be useful.

It's worth approaching the school bursar for details of assistance with fees. I don't mean scholarships necessarily, I mean discussing with them whether they will let you prepay for years in advance. School fees have risen massively and well ahead of the cost of inflation.

The thing about school fees is that they get more expensive as you go on. Initially, for us it didn't cost any more than the childcare for pre-school. But it's getting quite costly now and there are lots of extras. You can't send them to the school but not let them go on trips etc, you need to buy uniform and music lessons blah blah. In the sixth form, it really is pricey. So when sizing up the cost of the school, have a look at the fees in the sixth form.

As to how we do it - we both work. It is a worry though - it's a massive long term commitment.

Good luck