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Original poster

reported false address to LEA

116 replies

SpeckledHen · 28/04/2007 21:27

My ds has not got a place at the local primary school since the school can only take 30 and we are 31st on the list (special needs, siblings and those closer come first). Someone who I know lives far away but has a brother living near the school did get in, claiming that she was living with her brother. I was gutted at my ds not getting a place and reported them. Wrested with my conscience but am compelled through love of ds and desire for him to attend local school. Am I being unreasonable? What will happen and will the LEA tell the family it was me that reported them?

OP posts:
pooka · 29/04/2007 13:14

Not quite sure what you're on about DC? I thought that rules on proximity. siblings and SN were in place for fairness. My first choice school (which we didn't get) was closest, but 60 places and more than 60 children closer to the school/SN/siblings. So while I'm annoyed, I don't think the decision was unfair. Tis a foundation school anyway, so they have their own admissions criteria.

Your comment about the intelligence of admissions officers is rather offensive .

How the hell do you know how clever they are?
Agree though that the answer is to have excellent schools across the board.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 29/04/2007 13:34

SpeckledHen - they will check up on it I'm sure. I know they do visits in my area, at least they do for secondary;ds1's friend was visited.

DC - you can be so offensive. Honestly, it's quite possible to make your point without being derogatory about a whole group of people.

RustyBear · 29/04/2007 13:52

DC is probably making one unjustified assumption - that they are incompetant-, based on another unjustified assumption - that they are 'artsgrads'

Millarkie · 29/04/2007 13:53

Don't they do home visits in your area? Where we are the reception/nursery school teachers make an appointment to come to your house and discuss your child - and part of that is to check that the child actually lives there.

RustyBear · 29/04/2007 13:58

But if they make an appointment, it doesn't really help in Speckledhen's case - they can easily arrange to be there, and even to arrange for toys & other evidence to be around.

Original poster
SpeckledHen · 29/04/2007 14:07

UNquietdad, thansk so much. Have ordered the book on Amazon. Have read through your postings on other threads about appeals and got useful info from them too. Seems from comments that proving that someone lives at an address is actually quite hard. Wonder if they do spot checks? Wonder if they look at DVLC databases, electoral roll, child benefit ...... I have nothing against this family - just think it is they who should be appealing based on their circumstances and not us. Specially since I am 6.5 months pg!

OP posts:
Original poster
SpeckledHen · 29/04/2007 14:08

No,there is no routine home visit.

OP posts:
AuntAdaDoom · 29/04/2007 14:15

I'd have done the same as the OP and I wouldn't care if the family knew it.

I hope you do get your place SpeckledHen, but if it's still possible that someone else from the class will move or defect to the indep. sector before September, in which case you'll get their place. Both our nearest villages have over-subscribed classes and both had unexpected places available by the start of term - all instantly filled from the waiting list.

Will the school/council speak to the neighbours as part of their check? Does anyone know what would happen if they actually start at the school and then get found out?

UnquietDad · 29/04/2007 15:54

Schools in some areas - parts of London and other cities - do home visits to check addresses. Sometimes these are done in the guide of a "friendly" visit to meet the teacher before starting. I'm sure that is part of the pirpose, but I bet the address-checking is part of the agenda too. It's so easy to give a relative's address, or use some other form of subterfuge.

elastamum · 29/04/2007 16:00

This happened to a boy where we live going to secondary school. His parents gave a false address and he was thrown out of school about 1/2 way through the first term. Awful for the kid concerned as he was left without a school place at all whilst they looked for someone else to go, but the EA felt they had to uphold the rules. All the schools round our way are very oversubscribed

UnquietDad · 29/04/2007 16:31

The problem, of course, being a system where some schools are over-subscribed and others have places they can't give away - the people who abuse and cheat the system are just a symptom of the malady, not the malady itself. Not defending them, but we need to address the disparity between our best and worst schools or this problem is not going to go away.

And, if my city is anything to go by, that ain't going to happen - because too many people in the influential postcodes (whose kids go to the decent schools) run the city and like things just the way they are. They have no interest whatsoever in "closing the gap".

DominiConnor · 29/04/2007 18:48

No rustybeat, my experience is that they incompetent. Their degree of lack of is less on an issue.
Much of the schools problems can be laid at the clear strident incompetence of LEAs. Political doctrines of all kind have taken precedence over education, money that could have been spent on schools has been diverted to pet projects or simply frittered away.
LEAs haven't even managed to build the schools in the right place.
I call that incompetence, what do you call it ?

Original poster
SpeckledHen · 29/04/2007 20:21

Other irons in the fire: I have heard that there is a kid who got a place legitimately but really wants to go to a school out of county and that is looking promising for him; and then our appeal. At the appeal my main arguments are 1) social exclusion of sensitive child (lewtter from playgroup leader to say that she feels that this experience would 'damage' ds 2) we live 5 miles away from the school we have been offered and 1 mile from the school we want. I am giving up my job when I have dc3 and will not be able to afford a car. Ther is no bus 3) School has a published admission number of 15, admittedly yeras 1 and 2 are looked after 1 teacher and therefore admitting more than 15 apparently runs the risk of breaching legislation which says that 5, 6 and 7 year old class sizez cannot be over 30. However, in relaity the school has taken up to 20 in reception in the past and has coped by the the reception and y1/2 teacheres working flexibly together. the school has coped before many times with this situation and is prepared to again. The headmaster said to me ' we would love to have your ds'. On the other hand rules is rules and would the authority really allow us to do this since it would bmean our local school getting funding that could have gone to the undersubscribed school ....What do you think?

OP posts:
RustyBear · 29/04/2007 21:45

None of the things you mention in your last post, DC, are the responsibility of admissions officers, which is the group of people whose intelligence you were denigrating.

I work in a junior school, so I probably have more direct experience of admissions staff than you do, and ime they are trying to do the best they can with the situation as it stands.

octo · 29/04/2007 21:52

We won our appeal on the following grounds:

a) sibling at school
b) ds attends the preschool and rising 5s
c) ds knows the school environment
d) all his peers going there
e) cannot be at two schools at the same time if they go to different ones
f) the LEA argued that there were 26 places due to the actual size of the class area - but the school is new and it came out at the appeal that the working class size of the school is actually 30 not 26.
g) had house on the market ready to move if necessary & had evidence of this & of house lost last year.
h) they said the school was oversubscribed - but there are only 170/180 on the roll for september
i) involvement in the local community e.g. clubs, pta .....
j) detrimental effect on ds2 emotional state
It kind of went on and on really! But we did win - being part of the community was important and mentioned by our Head and other parents to include.

I decided to steer clear of anything technical and we focused on the family and importance of keeping them together and why we loved the school so much....

Good luck and I hope that helps a bit.

octo · 29/04/2007 22:00

I wouldn't say that the LEA was unhelpful or incompetent - they had just fixed their numbers and weren't going to budge. Some were more helpful than others when we rang up to ask questions and the guy who came to the appeal got well and truly grilled He did drop himself in it over the setting of the class size and once the penny dropped with the panel - that was it really!

What I find frustrating about the whole thing is that the admissions procedure hadn't even finished - they had yet to allocate people in the 'second round' and juggled about peoples preferences. so we could have still got in without the appeal - although glad we did go and win it as could not sit here til september waiting to find out if he has a place.

Oh - and taking a 3 day old newborn with us worked fine - was terrfied was going to have him on the day of the appeal - or my waters would break at the hearing! But he was good as gold

FiveFingeredFiend · 29/04/2007 22:04

I think it's a horrid thing to do.

UnquietDad · 29/04/2007 22:05

Which - grassing someone up, or lying to get into a catchemnt?

NotanOtter · 29/04/2007 22:21

not sure i could have done it but can see why you did....its been a nightmare around us - absolute hell for a lot of parents

NKF · 29/04/2007 22:25

Would you have done it if your child hadn't been affected? I think that's the real test. Scuppering someone else's plans when they damage your own is a differnt kind of morality than reporting a dishonest act that doesn't affect you.

SSShakeTheChi · 30/04/2007 08:52

Sorry to be judgmental but you did ask: I would never denounce someone (although I'm no saint). Do understand your motives but I think what you did was wrong TBH

pooka · 30/04/2007 08:57

I don't think what you did was wrong in any way, shape or form.

JARM · 30/04/2007 08:59

I dont think it was wrong.

In my opinion it is like shopping benefit frauds.

Someone is doing something wrong, we tell the appropriate authourities.... the fact that in the end it could beenfit her son, is an aside issue i think.

kiskidee · 30/04/2007 09:03

i would do the same thing in your place. why should they cheat and get a place.

Ladymuck · 30/04/2007 09:11

Difficult situations but if you were prepared to launch an appeal then I think that you have to consider that in this case the admission policy probably won't have been fairly applied.

I would say though that if you are first ont he waiting list then you have a very high chance of getting in anyway. Parents do change their plans ime, and some of the parents may already have other plans for their children (eg out of county or private).