On another thread I got pleasantly trounced for daring to infer that a Private school was profit driven

[Twiglett]

and I was corrected

so now I'm left wondering

what is the business model behind a Private school? Are they all the same? Do none of them have shareholders / owners

I'm with Edam on this one. I think the charitable status vis a vis tax etc is ludicrous; they get it because they offer a limited number of bursaries etc but what happens in reality are that kids who are at the school get put in for the bursaries and of course can get coached for them so that the competition is between kids already privately educated so their parents can get a fees reduction. It is very rare that the bursaries go to kids who would otherwise be in the state schools.

Know of at least one girl in my school, wheresmysuntan, who is from a large family and who would be in a state school if she didn't get a bursary - as, in fact, some of her brothers and sisters are. Our bursaries and scholarships are usually distributed at Year 7; bursaries are means-tested and scholarships given on basis of ability in certain subjects - neither has anything to do with whether or not the child has come from a private or a state primary school.

pooka do you live near Kensington otherwise those fees look very high for a GDST school.

I would have gone to state school were it not for a bursary - 50% of my fees paid for by the school.

Some schools which have previously awarded scholarships - based entirely on the child's performance at exam or ability in sports, music, art, drama, etc and not means-tested - are moving more towards honorary scholarships and increasing the amount of bursaries available.

I think this is excellent but ultimately I'd still rather see good state provision for EVERY child and whilst I can't access it I will do everything in my power to ensure we can ensure a good independent education for DD.

Yes but I can think of instances in a local private school where they have music bursaries which always go to kids already at the school and I only know said bursaries exist through a friend whose kids attend - they are not widely advertised to state school kids.

But BURSARIES will only be awarded to top up fees where parents' income is below a certain figure.

Locally most schools say that you are unlikely to be given a bursary if income is above £38k pa and full bursary only if income below £16k. And no assets other than your house.

I tried to cover that one in my first post, Batters. None of us use every public service that is funded by taxation - childless people don't use schools, lots of people don't use trains, healthy people don't use the NHS, I've never had cause (touch wood) to use the police. That doesn't make me, or those who educated their children privately, a philanthropist. But taxation isn't a 'what I put in I get out' system; it's about a functioning society. I don't personally use the armed forces as I had no wish to invade Iraq but I can't opt out of paying for defence.

(I went to an independent school for four years, btw, but felt it was a bit less obnoxious as it was founded as part of a movement to educate women back in the days when a bit of light embroidery and the ability to play the piano were considered sufficient.)

I'd be buggered if that came back, tbh, had to attempt to sew an apron once and it fell apart. And all I can do with a piano is the right hand to The First Noel...

That may be the case in your area SueW but I know someone whose child has a chorister scholarship on half fees and his dad earns more than £80k a year - go figure

For independent schools, ime, bursaries are means tested but scholarships are not. When DS1 went to an independent secondary school we filled in a form every year providing details of income (form was the same as had been used back in the days of government assisted places). As I took on longer hours at work the bursary decreased as the school redistributed the bursary fund to those in greater need.

Yup, Batters, only it was the GPDST in those days (they seem to have dropped 'public'). We had houses named after the pioneers of female education - Stanley, Gurney, Grey and Shireff. No Beale or Buss though!

Sorry SueW - rounded up to make the calculation easier on my addled brain. Think fees are approx. £2716 per term at reception, rsing to £3500 in Seniors. My PILs offered to pay but we would rather give the local primary a whirl and perhaps rethink at a later stage.
Using calculator it still comes up as
£391104 per annum in fees just for reception. Class sizes increase I think further up the school.

The vast majority are non-profit making organisations which have charitable status. They are goverened by a trust, there is no 'ownership' other than the current trustees - usually the board of governors.

They are the educational equivalent to a housing association. i.e. a private non-profit making organisation which provides a service outside of the state sector, which is also provided in the state sector. Many private schools were taken out of state ownership at some time in the past, in the same way as council houses are transferred to housing associations.

The charitable status affects only how VAT is accounted for in the main, as they do not generate profits, so there would be no profits to tax, as income tax anyway. They only get charitable status if they offer a sufficient number of burseries and scholarships and provide access to the local community to some of their assets (e.g. our school's leisure centre is open the local community for a nominal fee out of school hours).

Some, very few, are privately owned by individuals and do make a profit which is retained by the family.

wheresmysuntan:That may be the case in your area SueW but I know someone whose child has a chorister scholarship on half fees and his dad earns more than £80k a year - go figure

That's a SCHOLARSHIP!

A few people have now tried to explain the difference between scholarships and bursaries and I have said that some schools are making the move from paid scholarships to honorary scholarships i.e. no funds attached and using the funds released by that to make more BURSARIES available.

But then some parents throw in the 'but then there's all the added extras'. OK....

ski trip 2007 - open to approx 350 pupils y11-13. 49 went

ski trip 2006 - open to approx 350 x Y7-10 - 42 pupils

Horse riding holiday - cancelled due to lack of interest

Duke of Edinburgh award trip (clashed with ski trip) - 25 pupils

France for a week - 26 pupils out of over 200

It's not like everyone's going on the trips.

I was also at G(P)DST school. And now I can afford to send DD there, I will happily pay full fees to send her if that's where we decide upon.

And when I can, I will donate money or time to ensure that others can also benefit from this education. When I die, I plan to leave the Trust a legacy. Prob won't be much but I am still grateful for the education I got!

There is increasing pressure to make private schools who claim charitable status more accountable and to demonstrate this by making their facilities (sport, music, halls etc) available to the general community and having more bursaries to help those who could benefit from the teaching there but are otherwise unable to afford it. There is now no tax advantage for us as fee-paying parents unlike when my parents decided to scrimp to send me to a school, such as Batters and Edam allude to, when they could covenant the fee money and claim a discount in lieu.

Ok SueW - Iam mixing up my bursaries and scholarships but what I am more concerned about is that the people who put in for these have already embarked on private education and their schools help them prepare for the scholarships/bursaries. Parents of kids at local primaries neither know about the scholarships/bursaries nor do they have access to the extra tuition which would enable them to 'win' one. My friend was already sending her kid to one private school with a strong music department which recommended her child tried out for scholarship at another school which gave choral scholarships - they helped prepare the child. Result for her was half school fees paid when she could easily have continued to pay in full.

charitable orgs unfortunately.

And ridiculously.