Inverted snobbery

[DaisyRaine90]

So sick of my family etc. Judging me for moving my child to an independent.

Why would I not send my child to the best I can afford?

Is it jealousy or inverted snobbery??

Literally nobody but DP thinks this is a good decision and I can’t make sense of it.

Has anyone else experienced this??

I know I said that to DP: “I bet if it was Steiner school they’d be over the moon.”

😂

I find a lot of left wing people are hypocrites when it comes to school. Like my parents will tell everyone that it’s ridiculous etc. And they didn’t let me take the 11+

But when my brother was struggling they tried to move him to a private school and only didn’t because of financial reasons.

Selective amnesia as far as I’m concerned.

I am sending my child to what I believe is the best school I can find for her. I may well be wrong. But I have read reviews and school websites obsessively, visited schools and made an educated decision.

I have also experienced her being unhappy in a state school and state nursery because they were badly run and overcrowded. I know that’s not all state schools, just as I know there are bad private schools. But I trying not to make the same mistakes again.

I’m sure I’ll just make new ones instead

I find a lot of left wing people are hypocrites when it comes to school

You don't like people judging you, OP?

Well, I don’t know what else you call it? I am fully aware of my own hypocrisies.

Most people are hypocrites because when thinking about something ideologically they often change their mind when faced with the reality.

I vote left and always have always will. I’m just talking about my personal experiences. If that has not been yours please feel free to share them.

But I know lots of families who when faced with a bad state school miraculously changed very strong opinions so that their children could attend private or grammar schools x

We faced shitty state schools, and we were piss poor broke, so I did whatever I could to get DS into the grammar, which was excellent.

My family at every opportunity put me down, and him, and did everything to stop us wanting to go there.

I got DS up to where he should be, as school let him down, and he got in. He’s currently doing well, and is very happy.

I passed my eleven plus, but I went to the state school, because mother felt I wasn’t bright enough.

Oh, and as it turns out, the grammar isn’t full of posh kids, going on ski trips (my parents said that to put me off, he won’t fit in, you won’t afford school trips etc).

I think it’s not wanting anyone to do better than them. Personally.

Anyway. I don’t think private schools are worth the money, from a friend who’s a teacher in one. However, I wouldn’t judge your personal choices and wanting to do the best for your children.

Avoid the toxic. Avoid people that criticise and put you down.

Life is too short.

Grammars are state schools are they not?

OP tek plenty a no notice - it's entirely your choice to pay for your children's education if you want to

Since when are grammars not considered state schools?

OP it’s your money you do what you want with it.
I think there’s probably a degree of jealousy from your family. Many believe that paying always equates to better exam results, a place at a better university, better job etc and also a leg up through from the “old boys net work”. If you believe this is always the case but can’t afford the fees or won’t pay because you’d rather prioritise your money on other things (again your money your choice) then I think it’s human nature to be jealous that someone else’s child is getting something yours isn’t and some will then make negative comments about it.
Just ignore it. As long as you believe in your choice that is all that actually matters just don’t expect others to go around congratulating you on it.
Don’t get this thing with the Northern Lights by the way.

I agree with you OP. People offer opinions on these types of things when they don't necessarily understand all the reasons for your choice and you haven't asked their view

My only concern would be that once you're on that treadmill it's hard to jump off. Primary / prep school fees are a lot less than secondary and if what I've read is right, they're going up way more than inflation.

Plus, circumstances change. Unless all the money is already in an account getting high interest, nothing is guaranteed.

The most surprising couples have split up / lost jobs / had ill health etc.

I think when parents disapprove of your choices, they take it as a criticism of their own parenting towards you.

I'd rather have the holidays. But then we moved fir great state schools. Fee paying does not always mean better. There are good, bad and mediocre schools in both state and private sector.
Are you clear on the outputs your purchasing? And the return on your investment. I've invested the £300k I would have spent on school fees in a different way to benefit my children.

It's because they are insecure/brainwashed. Just ignore them and move on with your life.

"Are you clear on the outputs your purchasing?"
"And the return on your investment."
I personally don't think you should pay for education if you're looking a "return on your investment" or are purchasing "outputs". You're not playing the stock market here your dealing with people. There's not a school out there that will guarantee a specific outcome if you pay or not. Pay because you like the school; yes, pay because you like the staff/ethos of a particular school; yes but don't pay for a return on your investment. Too much pressure on your children, what happens if it doesn't turn how how you envisaged, the schools fault? Your children fault? A recipe for a disaster in my opinion.

That why I haven't paid for their education.

OP, this is going back a few years, but my two DDs spent their school lives in state schools, while my sister sent her three to a private school from the age of 9.

Our circumstances were entirely different. I couldn't have begun to afford private education, and luckily the authorites (southern England for early primary, Scotland for upper primary and secondary) where I lived had great state schools so it would never have occurred to me to investigate scholarships or anything. My sister lived in an authority with grammar schools, and the 'comprehensive' (only they really weren't) schools that were there for children who didn't pass 11+ were pretty bad at the time. One of my neices would probably have sailed through 11+, another might have got through with enough private tutoring and lots of stress and tears, and the third would have been very unlikely to make the grammar school cut. So my sister, having the means to do so, sent them all to an independent school rather than go through the 11+ nightmare and probably have them split up at schools with very different reputations.

Now, I would have said I was entirely supportive of my sister's decision. In principle I'm opposed to independent schooling, and I don't think it should exist. However, it does exist, and in the real world parents make what they genuinely consider to be the best choices for their DCs and I get that. So I thought I was non-judgemental - I went to events at the private school when asked, smiled brightly when my neices talked about their school (they loved it) and generally thought I was supportive. I'm pretty sure I wasn't jealous - the independent school was amazing, but my DDs were happy and successful in their state schools, so no need for jealousy. But my sister has since said, many times, that she felt I was judging her. I honestly didn't mean to, and I didn't think I was, but maybe my in-principle opposition to private schooling leaked out, or maybe she knew it and inferred I was judging her. I don't know. But it's possible that your family don't realise that they're coming across as judgemental. In the end, your decisions are your decisions, and you don't need their approval, so just focus on what matters to you.

I personally don't think you should pay for education if you're looking a "return on your investment" or are purchasing "outputs".

Completely agree

It is a bit like a decision to buy a new car, with lots of additions, when you can argue a 10 year old car will get you adequately from A to B... It is a choice as to how to spend money and the experience which may go with it

Education in either sector should not be about “outputs” or investments. These ideas play straight into the government hands, results (achieved at any cost) become the number 1 priority. In the financially difficult times for all aspects of the public sector, subjects and extra curricular activities that don’t add anything to progress 8 scores will be removed from the curriculum and children in the state sector will receive an even narrower education than their counterparts in the independent sector. Is that what you want 2014? Luckily my DS’s are at uni now but I wouldn’t have wanted a ever narrowing results obsessed education for my DS’s,
My the time you get old and grey like me much of the stuff I studied for O levels etc is well and truely forgotten, as it’s pretty superfluous, but the other stuff, my love and appreciation of music, art, drama, architecture, literature etc (learnt from an early age for no other reason than because it’s there) remains an important part of my life.

OP, if you were confident about your choice, having weighed up the pros and cons, you wouldn't be taking what they have said to heart so much - you would probably just have empathised with their doubts, explained your choice to them rationally and then you would have all moved on.

However, if you're just choosing private because you "can", and because you think it is always "best" rather than because it is best for your family's particular circumstances, then it's reasonable for your nearest and dearest to question you about it. Of course you don't have to answer, but if you don't they might conclude that your reasons are flimsy and be scornful of you. That's not inverted snobbery, though it might make you feel better to call it that.

That’s what I love about the school. The creative learning approaches, the ethos and pastoral care, that both DCs could be together, that there is a focus on extra curricular activities, the outdoors and focus on individual learning styles.

It’s for the experience not the outcome 😊

The state school did not have the time or resources to cover more than the basic curriculum.

We have put money aside and are planning to pay a large percentage up front. I haven’t told any of my family that as it sounds boastful, but maybe if there concerns are based on our ability to afford it that might reassure them but I wouldn’t want to talk about money as it’s a sensitive subject.

We are insured (in case of either of us dying we would actually be better off financially not worse), we can afford it if we break up as well. I know they will have looked up the fees.

I think the resentment started when I was asked who I had got the mortgage for the new house for and told them we wouldn’t have a mortgage. I have had to cut off contact with family who have just been bitter in the past because my house was bigger than there’s (3 bed semi not a mansion).

They ask “how’s Uni going?” And I say I’m getting between 2:1 and a 1st. I normally just say “it’s going ok thanks” now but If DP is there he’ll say “tell them about the 89% you got on that last test, you are doing really well.” He’s showing his pride not trying to rub salt in wounds.

I have really low self esteem, so always feel embarrassed about anything ostentatious or show offish. However, sending her to a fee paying school is definitely not to show off in any way.

She is very smart but struggles socially and I want her to have the support that goes with smaller class sizes etc.

I think I might have to take a break from my family for a bit. They are very negative people and I find it draining.

I have gone NC with my Mother following years of control, manipulation, coercion, abuse and even violence. It’s been a really tough couple of years.

Now I think (having lived through a lot of difficult stuff the last through years through no fault of her own) my daughter deserves to go to a school where they are able to prioritise her needs. I want her to be stable and settled, and she could stay at this school until 13 so could really integrate into somewhere properly.

I will be happy whether she gets 2 GCSEs or 15. That’s not the point.

The inverted snobbery was a headline tbh. I’m not sure it exactly fits 😊

I sympathise with the disapproval of others OP, I think some take the decision to send a child private as a sign you don't think the state system is good enough for you. We've has the same.

Can't sympathise with the left wing hypocrisy though I'm afraid. Animal Farm - all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Socialist haters are gonna hate.

There are some people who can't bear the thought of anyone in their family doing better than them - because they already have low self esteem and one way of managing that is to keep friends and family in the same place. I have known parents who could choose between a crap secondary and a great secondary, choose the crap school because 'I went there and it was good enough for me so it's good enough for my kids' - they have no aspiration for their kids because if their kids achieved more, it would make them feel crap about themselves.

There could be a bit of this going on, but probably not.

When you choose independent ed you have to be VERY careful about how you talk about it. You are effectively saying (or people at least hear it as) that the state option you have rejected for your child, but which they have sent their child to, wasn't good enough for you and your child. They infer from this that you think their child is attending a less good school, and this makes them feel uncomfortable - not necessarily because they agree their choice is less good, but because your choice suggests you think the school they chose is less good.

If you talk about 'doing the best' or 'choosing the best we can afford' for our child, the implication is that they cannot afford such a good option and are receiving a lesser option OR that they could afford it, but by choosing not to spend the money on education are somehow valuing their kids less than those who don't spend the money on education. So saying 'we all do the best we can' or similar statements can be annoying because they imply that the other persons choices are simply not as good as some parents in some way either value education more or put their children first more than those whose kids are at the independent school.

My child moved from state to independent and I tried to say very little about it. If asked why, I mentioned that I thought it would prepare them for the particular secondary (also independent) which I hoped they would go to. I never said anything to state or imply the old school was worse or the new school better - just different. I never said anything about 'doing the best' for my child, because I know everyone wants to do that and I didn't want to imply my choice was either better or they weren't doing the best.

I always ask about how all my friends kids are getting on at school (in a non competitive way) and show interest and enthusiasm for their achievements at school and outside and try not to make comparisons to my child's experiences. I certainly don't mention unless specifically asked about the things which perhaps do make my DCs experience a bit different or imply that overall they will do better or come out with anything different.

And I find it's not very helpful to keep mentioning things we cannot afford because we pay fees. We do have friends with kids in state schools who ski and have flashier cars and more home improvements or bigger houses than us. I don't mention our lack of these as a result of paying fees or their having these because they don't pay fees, because even if not spoken, there is an implied criticism that they are lesser ways to spend your money and that only by spending on fees do you really show you love your kids. It may well be that kids will benefit more from more travel, bigger houses, parents being more relaxed due to not having fee commitments than me going without those things so I can pay fees. I don't want to suggest some kind of moral choice about consumer goods and services versus education - people often hear that kind of criticism too, when fee paying parents point to the financial sacrifices they make to pay fees.

I do privately acknowledge that I have been lucky to have more choice. Having money to afford to pay school fees has given me that and clearly I do think the fee paying option is better for my child. I also acknowledge that it's not fair and the fact tha I have this choice and my child get to go to a school most wouldn't have the option of (even if they did want it) generates feelings of discomfort amongst friends who all want a great education for their children and love them and value them as much as I do my children. They know my child has access to something their kids don't. Whether they think it is better or not is beside the point, it's just the fact that we have had more choices than them, which is difficult,min an area as emotive as our children's opportunities and education. The key is to never say anything which suggests or from which can be inferred that their choices (or lack of choice) indicates a lesser value placed on education or on doing the best for their child.

OP, your DD may 'deserve to go to a school where they can meet her needs' but all children deserve that.

You have to be really careful to recognise all children deserve great education. The fact you can afford more choice doesn't mean others deserve that choice less or that their parents love them less. I'm sorry but I think some of your comments on here would definitely annoy lots of families. You are pleased with yourself for having managed to afford fees and you think you are doing better for your DD by paying them. Just think what this says to those in your family who cannot afford the fees (they hear that they have done less well and that their choices of what to do with their money imply they don't value education) - and sorry but it doesn't even sound like the message comes across very subtly either.

Well this socialist is hating right now