Why can't parents ask this question?

[Creole]

Why is it a sin to ask how your child is performing in comparison to the rest of the class? Surely this is what a lot of parents want to know.

Or does this question make you sound like a very pushy parent?

Quite agree MB (am state primary) I think there is a bit of a myth out there about what we actually do

quite.

If only they had seem me jumping up and down on the upper sixth yesterday over the dreadful standard of their hw!

Twiglett - I posted about that on one of my first forays into MN. I quoted the Sunday TImes. But I was lynched for not providing full references...

I think I'm a bit surprised at how badly how many people want to know how their child does in comparison to others (and I'm the most competitive person I know!)

I'm really only interested in DS. If he cannot read something properly, it doesn't really make any difference as to whether his friends can or cannot. I need to know what he can do, what he should be able to do and what I as a parent need to do to help him do what he should be able to do. Also as classes are so variable - even in the same school - I can't see how knowing his relative place is going to help.

MB, your comments are really interesting. I was regularly top of the class (in a fairly average comprehensive) and coasting in some subjects. I was not stretched in any way whatsoever because, using the analysis of the time, I was already number 1 and there was no further work for them to do with me. I was also hugely complacent. (I was fairly average at a slightly larger number of other subjects , however, which helped me "keep it real")

When I went to University I was forced to work to the edges of my limits and that was a bit of a shock to the system to be challenged in that way. I think in the system you describe that now wouldn't happen.

becky actually it was a tongue-in-cheek sweeping generalisation .. much like the post which prompted it .. as I was typing it, because I remember vaguely reading it somewhere, I was thinking 'show me your source and I'll show you mine'

I want MN Towers to rank posters according to their usefulness/wittiness/inflammatory tendencies/undiscovered troll ability on here and publish a big list.

what like your spreadsheet?

Kind of, Twig

Yes, all French children learn the same handwriting.

There are plenty of French teachers in moyenne or grande section de maternelle (= nursery and reception class) who teach 1 letter per week ie to learn the alphabet takes 26 weeks. All children learn at same pace. Dire.

I think competition is fine as long as it is a real competition with a proper application to life.

I taught in a lycee in France, and all the kids and their parnts wanted to know their 'note' or mark.
I argued that it was pointless - easy for me, but of no value to them. I would give them instead a detailed feedback on their strengths and weaker areas, ands tell them periodically where they had improved on previous work etc.
There was uproar! They needed the note to know the pecking order, they com[laine dot the parents ho complained to the head, and i was tild in no uncertain terms to give them marks to shut them up!!!!

Kookaburra - the "notes" are a crucial part of a child's educational records.

All school reports are managed on a national centralised computer system with the same format for all schools. The comments are very unimportant - the marks are what count.

Hey MB have had a real urge the past couple of days to go back to work and have just realised it's because of this thread. I feel like I've been having a professional conversation again with like minded people. I miss it...are you working at the moment?

Look at how parents have absolutely adored school league tables which is exactly the same thing. In life, in shop queues, in meetings with friends, at mother and toddler groups (the last one of the worst places for comparisons) we always want to do those comparisons. If we all spend more time in church we might get beyond that perhaps.

Religious people are usually the most competitive and self-righteous of all, in my experience. I hate religion (if I didn't I couldn't be with someone of another faith background).

Ah, that's a shame. Won't your daughter be brought up Jewish then? That's not very stay at home motherish supporting husband and his family kind of thing.

No one's brought up anything at all around here. Partner dead against it as am I.

They are then denied something to rebel against, though, religiously bereft, denied their heritage etc.

You can be informed about your culture (as indeed we do inform the children about their cultures) without being religious. The root of all prejudice.

kookaburra - that's the phrase we've needed on this thread - 'pecking order'. That's all it's about isn't it. My children abilities are what they are regardless of anyone else.

Berrie, yes I am working, though because of dh's illness and assorted grimness I only teach a half time table atm. I love it. Love most of the kids. Best job I have ever done. I also do a bit of freelance consultancy stuff on the side (as it were).

Perhaps these are obvious questions, but here goes...

How does a parent know if a child is working to their potential, or simply marking time? And, if there are no issues/problems at school, how do parents ensure that a bright child fulfills their potential without being (or appearing to be) a pushy parent?

I'd have thought that asking the question at parents evening would be a good idea. you could also ask what targets your child has been set, and what needs to be done for him/her to meet the targets. Ask if there are any issues that are getting in the way of progress, and probelms or worries etc.

Teachers love involved parents, it makes for happy sucessful kids. Parental involement is probably the most importat factor in a childs educational success.

Don't worry about seeing pushy, I doubt that you are , just be practical and realistic.

I always want to know this too, I've now learnt how to read upside down when they have the class lists infront of them at parents nights so i can see for myself without asking.....

We've asked the question "We really don't want to know where DD1 is in relation to the rest of her class, but we've assumed that DD1 is doing pretty much exactly what you'd expect for a child of her age. Are we right?"

In other words, please compare DD1 to other 5/6 year olds, not the random and small selection of 5/6 yo in her class. We just didn't want to drift along assuming everything was OK only to find that DD1 was really struggling.

Of course the teacher then told us where DD1 was in the class (around the average and floating upwards)!