How did Diane Abbott justify sending her son to a private secondary school?

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After all of her rants about parents who pay for private education?

I thought some black boys failed at school because they had a much higher chance of not having a father at home. There are black boys in my children's school who do fine but they live with a married mother and father and are financially well off.

There is that correlation to be sure, but the numbers are so large that I'm sceptical than any one factor is big enough to explain it.

wasn't there a very recent study that basically said schools are racist in their very bones, unconsciously so, but effectively racist in that teachers simply don't expect as much from this group of boys and so their low expectations are partly fulfilled by the pupils.
Wasn't this what the report said?

But also how closely related is the fact that schools fail a lot of boys generally of every cultural background?

My ds had a male keyworker in playschool - I think it had an enormously positive influence on him.

I think loads more male primary school teachers would make a huge difference wouldn't it?

I certainly feel my sons benefit hugely from an all boys prep school, boy subjects, boy level of detail, boy outside play the norm, no comparison with very different girls. They adore the male teachers around the place although their class teachers are still female. They have a few black as in Afro Caribbean origin boys in their class and I don't notice any different in achievement or expectations in an academdic private school for boys. What I do notice is lots of Indian boys and hardly any black but that may just reflect the ethnic mix of where we live.

So the British Empire did a ruddy good job then? What!

She was shouting long and hard at the Tories using private schools when her son was a nipper.

Gradually got quieter on the subject as he grew up. Then sent him to one of her hated private schools herself.

Feckin' hypocrite.

I think that if you look into school results you will see that the issue of race is far more complex than school simply being 'racist to their very bones'

Ortherwise how do you explain that Far Eastern Asians outperform everyone, then Indians, then Caucasians, then Aficans, then Pakistani/bangaldeshi, then West Indians?

Do you really think that schools have the time, or inclination, to find out if child X is Indian, in which case they will make sure he does better than average, or Bangladeshi, in which case they will make sure he will do worse thhan average.

Race is a highly complex issue. I'm sure that schools need to do more to address the issues of poor performance of some groups (and white working class boys are at the bottom of most exam results BTW). However these results are not a simple case of racism in schools by teachers.

She's a feckin' hypocrite.

'Good enough for you but not good enough for my son.'

Caught D Abbot tonite on BB2 playing piano for some sort of reality show (not watching - DH playing with his new digistal recorder - yawn). Recalled that I like her style (and voice), and on balance am glad that she put her child's welfare above her principles, I would rate her more highly for that reason. Tho'I wish her politics would recognise the powelessness of those of us who would like to do the same and can't bloody afford it!!!!!)

What priciples?

Vote-winning principles don't count.

Maritanbishop, racism in Britain is a complex structure, not white supremacy.
During the Serbian conflict, the Daily Mirror had a front page with a few little asian men getting on a bus. The headline was something like "they're coming for you Slobba"
Gurkhas are seen by the Brits as about the hardest people on Earth; objectively that position has merit, but how odd is it that any men in any nation openly admit that smaller different coloured ones are braver ?

Japanese/Chinese people are seen by many Brits as not only "academically smart", but often more so than them, as some sort of genetic thing.
Indians are often seen as hard working, almost slavishly so.
These are rough race based stereotypes, but teachers are no more immune from them that the rest of the population.

I see the black boy problem as part of the more general boy problem in our schools. Although boys still choose harder subjects than girls, their overall achievement is slipping badly behind. I think part of the black boy problem is that they are more "boyish", which interacts badly with the overwhelmingly female dominated set of teachers in early years.

Boys schools is one way to deal with that. Boys are often in the wrong all the time in primary school just for being boys.

Japanes, fussy mothers living in a sexist home environment who put the often one child only, education as her raison d'etre, ferrying him from kumon maths to extra violin. Second generation Indian like all immigrants over here to work very hard become lawyers and accountants, all the spare family money going into the children's school fees, children having extra coaching, parents expecting full marks. Parkistan/bang etc not richer Uganda Asians or wealthy indians but from poor country villages, uneducated families, mothers who can't read, lowish IQ families often. African - typically but not always broken home, only one parent there, not much money. That's my generalisation anyway. All generalisations can be dangerous I suppose. I don't really like them.

martianbhp, I wasn't proposing this research was true! I just remember hearing about it. If there is truth in teachers having lower expectations of their black male pupils then I can imagine that it could become self-fulfilling. I think most teachers are wonderful but they will reflect the society they are in up to a point. And of course these things are more complex than just that.

It is my understanding that most people in our society do not think of themselves as racist. However that does not mean that we are not racist! It is a subtle business but I do believe we live in a profoundly racist society but that we don't think we are racist. From this point of view D Abbott's decision makes more sense.

Look at the way black officers are treated in the army and the police force. It doesn't make the UK look so fine does it? And it reflects the racism just below the surface doesn't it?

DC I live in lancashre in one to the most deprived towns in the country and I am sure I have read somewhere western europe - Blackpool. You are tight that the reasons black boys tend to fail in schools are to do with more than simply what happens in schools but in society at large although schools have a role to play and I am sure that more male and more black male teachers would help the situation. I think it is a lot to do with class as well as the other group that education is failing is white working class boys who make up the majority of the schoolI teach at. ( we used to be a boys school si are dominated still by boys in the higher years.)

Lack of father figures or even just positive black male role models in general is I am sure a factor Xenia although as DC says it is complicated and is impossible to isolate one factor.

haven't time to post anymore as I am having a midnight coursework panic!

Personally, I think the Labour Party has always tied itself into a nonsensical position on private schools. I believe it's possible to care deeply about the educational provision for the vast majority of children who attend state schools while choosing something different for your own. But state schools have become a badge of entry for Labour MPs.

Re: Diane Abbot, I remember the story at the time. She applied to send her son to Stoke Newington school (state) and he didn't get a place. He was offered one at the sort of school that most parents (if they had a choice) would ritually disembowel themselves rather than use. I think that being called a hypocrite probably seemed mild compared with the prospect of her son attending that school.

I come back to the point I made earlier - other parents didn't have that choice, because of decisions made, primarily, by the Labour Party. It's funny how she only woke up to it when it affected her own child.

And then she got the idea that she needed to express contrition, but got the wrong end of the stick - apologising for doing the best for her child. Nobody could hold that against a parent. What she should have been apologising for was holding such an untenable position.

Other politicians wangle it by living in a really smart country constituency and park the spouse and children there.

Absolutely Xenia - then they can defend state education with impunity.

People's vocal support of state schools does seem to be in proportion to the "niceness" of their local comp, which surely is not the point - if you support the system, you take what it damn well throws at you. You play the roulette like everyone else or you speak out in favour of selection.

But how do we compare with France and Germany on this?
Do the establishment use the state system in those countries?
A friend told me that the French system is excellent academically but appalling in terms of pastoral care.
Do the Germans spend much more on their schools?
I can't help but think our 2ndary schools are
JUST
TOO
BLOODY
BIG!!!

sorry,
BLARDY
big

The establishment do generally use state schools in Germany -- private schools are generally only considered for kids who can't hack state schools.

BUT there is widespread satisfaction with the state of secondary education in particular perceived as too impersonal (it is they don't really do pastoral care in Germany) and insufficiently rigorous.

So all is not rosy over there either. And I know in France there are increasing numbers choosing to use private (generally religious) schools because they are not happy with mainstream.

frogs did you mean dissatisfaction?