Calling all teachers..... how do i say no

[inthegutter]

to well-meaning but misguided mothers who are desperate to help out in the classroom? I DON'T mean those volunteers who are absolute amazing, who you can rely on to do what needs doing, to not gossip outside the school etc. I mean the ones whose kids are all in school, who've got too much time on their hands, who have a little bit of knowledge (dangerous, that one!) and think they'll be doing you an enormous favour by helping out in class/with the school production/accompanying school trips etc. I have to admit, the background to this is that I've had one or two bad experiences - in particular with a mum who came in to listen to children read and then talked outside the school to other parents about which child was where on the reading scheme. I've currently got another mum who is angling to get in on helping with our summer term production. She keeps telling me she's worked as a costume designer and has also done a bit of choreography. Well maybe, but I also know she's a pain in the arse - if her kids don't get lead roles there'll be hell to pay etc. Has anyone discovered a foolproof way of dealing with this??

also in answer to the op, don't take the respnsibility all on yourself, this is a whole school issue, specially if you have experienced parents gossiping. Take it to the head and request that a stricter policy be put in place and some confidentiality training be mandatory before parents can be accepted to help.

littlefish - sorry for the hijack but come on over here trying to arrange a meet up!

Vixma -surely you have children who misbehave? Can't believe that there is a school that doesn't?

at Nikkie!
We have only perfectly-behaved children at my school [guffaw]

I listen to readers in my children's school and I can honestly say that the teachers are very appreciative of the help that parents can give in this respect. We are allowed to choose whether we want to help in our own child's class or not - I have chosen not to. I know lots of parents who lypisten to readers, including all those who help in my 3 children's classes and I have never heard any of them discuss individual children outside the class. I know I certainly wouldn't.
I agree that it is totally up to the teacher to decide the type of help he or she is willing to accept but I can't help feeling that the OPs attitude to parent helpers is somewhat lacking in charity. I am not some sort of dogooding busybody - I help on the PTA, I am a parent governor and do lots of voluntary work for the school, not to fill some sort of void in my dull little SAHM life - but because my input is needed and respected. School are about communities not just children and teachers, and I see my children's school a very good example of how that community involvement enriches children's lives.

The teacher and paid TA at my school are responsible for shall we say 'difficult children' on trips as we don't want to scare off parent helpers

Agree with Rosal'burg. I love helping out, and the teachers seem to fall over themselves at any offers of extra hands. Would really miss it if not an option. It just gives such insight into their learning experience.

I imagine Littlefish is right about making sure that gossip is contained, though, by emphasising confidentiality; gossip is really not on.

For any parents who are reading this thread and thinking that they might not be welcome in school, please think again.

I can only stress that in most schools (I would love to say all), parental support is seen as paramount to the efficient working of the school. Whether you feel comfortable working in the classroom, or would prefer to help with gardening, reading with individual children, preparing resources, photocopying, supporting ICT lessons etc. there are opportunities to get involved in so many ways.

I'm really saddened by some of the messages here. The days of teachers having "privacy" and "control" in their own classrooms are thankfully on the decline. I have regularly had 3 or 4 additional adults in my classroom who have only ever added to the children's enjoyment of learning.

I have been really priviledged to be supported by some incredibly talented parents who have since gone on to train as teaching assistants and teachers because they had such a positive experience in the schools where I worked.

However, I also completely understand those parents who would rather not help in school. Some children do react badly to having a parent or grandparent in school and the teacher and parents need to be able to be honest about whether the arrangement is working for everyone.

As has been suggested, some schools have systems whereby parents are allocated to other classes which by-passes this problem. In my last school, parents of Reception children supported the parallell class so they were still able to understand the learning style, and any specific concepts being covered, but without their child becoming upset. I also agree that the confidentiality issue needs to be stressed throughout the whole school. Where possible, my old head teacher would speak to parent helpers before they started, to thank them for their support, discuss their expectations and explain the school's expectations. It worked really well.

I agree with littlefish.

I am sorry, inthegutter, but your post comes over as very patronising and sanctimonious.

I am a teacher- and havebeen for 30 years across all ages. My children's first school declined my offer of help, when I was a full time Mum, because they were very "anti" any mums who were teachers,- they were defensive and as I had specialist training in literacy I assume they felt threatened.

This saddened me, as I felt I had alot to offer and was intelligent enough to know there were boundaries and that I was not a threat to them!

When we moved, I offered to help again at the new school and was welcomed with open arms- I was soon offered paid teaching work, but also did one morning a week as a volunteer.

I have also taught in further education where I had volunteers in my classes - working with adult dyslexics. I feel it is quite easy to set the ground rules and make volunteers feel useful and wanted, but still make them aware that you are in control overall.

If you are having a problem with confidentiality issues, you need to be pro active- arrange to talk to all parent helpers and explain what is acceptable and what isn't. It's your class- so take control of what happens in it!

As for your remark that they should go out and get a "proper job" well- that's breathtaking- who are you to say how they should live their lives? Sounds to me as if you need to get off yourhighhouse and learn how to manage situations professionally instead of offloading here.

The typos are just that- not spelling errors- a lot and off your high horse.!

Glyn, you obviously have pretty strong feelings about this, but thats no excuse to deliberately mis quote a fellow MNer. inthegutter actually said the opposite - that its NOT about people getting a 'proper job' (whatever you mean by that)but about people 'establishing themselves in their own arena'. As a teacher I would tend to agree with her. Yes there are some excellent helpers in schools, but I've come across just as many who take up a hell of a lot of time because they need so much careful managing etc that it's actually better to not have them there. Parents should be there to make things better for the children and the teacher, it's not about just doing it to fill their time up. And the comment about being more professional in managing situations is just nasty.

I take your point, but I still stand by what I said- it wasn't mean to be "nasty" . I think this particular teacher should discuss her feelings with her Head teacher and that they should have a school policy on it, rather than it being left to individual teachers to either accept or decline offers of help.

The underlying tone of the original post came across as being very ungrateful for help-and very judgemental- the quote about parents who have too much time on their hands- that is making a judgement about their lifestyle.

As long as people are working as volunteers, and they are not "applying" for the role, then it is surely up to the class teacher to try to make the best of their talents, and to accpet that some parents will be a pain, but that others will be great- and just to accept that as part of life.

I think I echo all that Littlefish has, very eloquently said. The one thing I would add to what has been said is that managing people, be it teaching assistants, other teachers or even volunteers in the classroom, is an increasing part of the job of a teacher. Some people find this very hard and there is scant training available within the profession.
I sympathise with your concerns inthegutter, but perhaps if you can manage these parents helpers successfully by setting clear expectations for all parties at the outset then surely what they have to offer can only enhance the learning of the children in your class which must surely be your prime objective?

Agreed Robinpud- the point about volunteers is that they are exactly that- and unless they have to go through a selection procedure, it is hard to say "no" unless there are good reasons for turning them down. However, if a teacher feels that a particular parent would be unhelpful in their classroom, surely they can just say that they don't need any more help just at the moment, but thanks for the offer?

I agree with your pint about people management- as someone who has worked in and out of teaching for my entire career., but also worked in commerce and re-trained as a counsellor, it saddens me that many teachers have poor social skills- (this is a general point, not aimed at inthegutter)- it is as if they can only relate to children, or when they are in a naturally superior/controlling position- and as soon as that is under threat in any way, they cannot adapt.

I think that in all these situations, people need to turn the situation round and ask what THEY are afraid of, and try to change THEIR behaviour. For instance, if a teacher feels "threatened" by a parent, then they need to question their own self-esteem and confidence as ateacher. If they feel that a parent may "blab" outside the school gate, then they need to ask if they are in need of help with their assertiveness skills, so they can manage that situation to everyone's satisfaction.

Often the problem is not the parent, per se, but the way that a teacher reacts to them - and that means examining their own beliefs, confidence and so on, in trying to deal with the situation, and perhaps confronting their own fears about not being in control.

it is acliche, but you cannot change other people- you can only change yourself and how you adapt to a situation.

well i am astounded at the generalisation that teachers have poor social skills! To get by in a secondary school, certainly in the state sector, you need to have excellent communication skills with both young people and adults. In my experience, adolescents are the last people you could possibly talk down to, patronise or whatever - they simply will not tolerate it these days and you won't survive in the classroom. I remember from my dim and distant past a handful of primary teachers who very much talked down to us, but this was more years ago than I care to admit!
I think the point inthegutter makes eloquently is that while there may be some parents who start off as volunteers, turn out to be excellent, and maybe even go on to train as TAs or teachers (I've worked with 2 who have done that) there are many more volunteers who probably aren't doing it for the right reasons. There are SOME (and I emphasise SOME before i get slated!) mums who just assume that the next step after looking after pre-school children is to 'help out' at school, when they may have numerous other talents and would be better off developing these. I've lost count of the number of mums I've heard who, when their youngest starts school, say 'ooh i need to find something that'll fit nicely around school hours' and often won't consider anything other than helping in their kids school. Whenever a TA post comes up at my kids Primary school, there are literally dozens of applications, sometimes from people who are really unsuited. Surely it would be better if these people could develop their own talents and interests. I think mums can be the worst people for limiting themselves at times. The bottom line is, for the teacher, they are doing a very tough professional job (I've worked in industry before teaching and teaching definitely requires the greater experise). People treat teaching very differently from other professions (I wonder how many doctors/solicitors/whatever have parents just volunteering to 'help out'?!) In my experience it's not about teachers wanting to shut the door and be secretive and control freakish. We spend so much of our lives having to adjust to new government guidelines, meet unrealistic targets and dealing with problems that are not remotely educational, that we just need to be able to get on and do the job. I would NEVER turn down an offer of help from someone where it will benefit the children, but I can also completely understand inthegutters point of view.

I said that "many teachers have poor social skills" - not all!

I am not saying this applies to the entire profession, but was making the point that SOME teachers relate superbly to their pupils but find it hard to do the same to outsiders.

When I was teaching I did quite like having parents in to help - it made lots of activities possible that might not have been otherwise. Also help with listening to readers was so welcome because we had such a high proportion of children who weren't heard at home. I did find that at the beginning of term I would have 3 or 4 parents that would only come in once just to suss me out but some of the regulars were so good that they eventually became TAs.