Boys and Reading

[rosie76]

Hello, does anyone out there have a boy struggling with reading?? My ds1 is nearly 7 and just finds it so hard.

here

Ooh. I felt quite emotional reading these posts - I jolly almost didn't post myself. Please bear in mind the following, which may seem ridiculously obvious, but sometimes it isn't when it's about your own child:

1. we all develop at different paces
2. boys often develop differently and do the decoding thing later than girls
3. many many boys are extremely sensitive to failure so they don't try until they know they can do it (believe this - I was in despair until last summer when my 8 year old just clicked finally and started reading for sally gardner and Asterix for fun)
4. many books just are not rewarding fast enough for reluctant readers which is why fiction is less rewarding than fact stuff - try and pick some of those compilation of short stories for him
5. praise, praise, praise, praise the tiniest achievement...oh how I have learned..

My heart goes out to you. BE PATIENT!

PS Don't expect school to teach your child tto read (controversial, but hey, they are oretty busy wuth the really challenged kids).

Oh, and did I mention the patience thing - I was never patient enough - you HAVE to belivee he will get it - just keep going over the simple stuff till he tells you to shut up as he knows it already!

How about taking them to something like this roald dahl children's gallery ?

balls, that's a lovely and really helpful post. Thanks

I totally agree with the last two posts...Roald Dahl museum is an awesome idea espesially ( my family love the Witches and the BFG). Goosebumps are fun and if possible find out what your childs friend are reading. There are so many books for tv programmes and films now ie. Tracy Beaker, Harry Potter and horrible histories...what is your child intrested in. Make it fun i.e read some of the book with them and make silly voices for the characters when they speak, hopefully they will copy...anything is worth a try. goodluck and it is so good that you are intrested to help your child with this as some parents forget how important reading with a child is....plus were so stressed to find time these days it's crazy.....good luck.

Comics are good. The big difference between books and comics is that most books are bought by adults for children, which gravely affects their desirability for kids.

Also, why not let him at the Internet ?
It's still mostly a text based medium.

I think there are several things you can do to gently encourage him in the process of reading and loving books, rather than just the mechanics of reading.

Firstly make sure you provide space and time for him to read. If you want him asleep by, say, 7.30 tell him his bedtime is 7 pm, but as a special privelege he can - if he wants - have his light on for 30 mins extra to read in bed ... not to play gameboy, or watch TV, or anythign else; but just for reading/looking at books if he wants. And make sure you limit/control TV/PC/handhelds, etc time. There is no way reading books is ever going to be able to compete with those with a young boy; so you have to provide the boundaries.

Make sure he sees rolemodels reading - ideally men that he admires.

Visit your library regularly, and let him choose books himself. Don't worry whether they are picture books, easy books, hard books, non-fiction books: whatever!

When you find a book he's enjoyed, get hold of the sequel or other books by the same author. Look on Amazon and find out when the next book is being published: write it on the diary and make a special treat to go to the bookshop to buy it when it's just out and be one of the first people in the country to read it! (Most boys thrive on competition, and this sort of thing does really motivate them.)

You can make reading a competition too: there is a Reading Challenge run every summer by the library which works well. Each week or so they have to choose a book, and they fill in a little passport or whatever, with stamps and so on. But you can make up a similar competition yourself.

My ds2 (7) is a very fluent reader, but reluctant to read fiction. He currently has a list of 15 books, and a little passport to stamp every time he reads one: and will get a reward (as yet unspecified) when he's finished.

Rosie-you must think about whether your son could be dyslexic. I don't want to alarm you, but 10% of children are- that's 3 in every class. it is also inherited and passed on via the male gene- so if your partner has problems that could be a factor.

Balls- "don't expect the teacher to teach your child to read" ???? What on earth is he going to school then for?

As a teacher, a specialist in dyslexia and the parent of one, I'd say pester the life out of the shcool until you get some answers as to why your child is behind!

I have spent the past 10 years of my teaching career advising parents, teaching dyslexic children and liaising with other teachers in schools.

There is not a lot of help in schools, sadly, but you can have a private assessment, and also employ a private tutor if your son is dyslexic- or even just struggling- don't let it sldie because kids' self-esteem gets damaged easily and then it affetcs all aspects of their learning.

I suggest you go to the BDA website- British Dyslexia Association - and look at the info for parents.

What is dyslexia? There is no doult that there are plenty of bright children who have problems reading? Does the dyslexia label actually help a child?

It is possible to tell the difference between a child who can't read because they had bad teaching or glue ear in reception or a sight problem from a child who is dyslexic? Is the label of dyslexia applied too freely?

The cost of a proper dyslexia assessment is considerable and it might be better spending the money on paying for extra help for the child and not worrying if they are intelligent or not.

It IS hard. Certain countries (eg Sweden, Denmark) don't even start teaching reading till the children are 7

Glyn - sorry, that was a bit of a sweeping thing to say. My apologies. But, in my experience, in a large primary school the children get insufficient attention to teach them adequately to read. My son was listened to by a teacher about once every 2 weeks in reception and about once every 2 months in Year 3. As he was my first child, it took me a while to realise that he was not being adequately taught or supported at school. Beyond learning to read, school has an important role in helping to teach a child to cooperate in a group, to learn from other adults than those in one's own family, to learn things in different ways etc.

I suppose what I should have said, is that the school cannot be relied upon as the sole source of reading instruction. Much support from home is needed to make it a rounded and enjoyable experience.

I think Rosie, you just have to keep plugging away at it tiny bits and very often. Look for simple lines of text in newspapers, magazines, picture books from the library, and try to coax him to read those out loud to you, too.

We tried Captain Underpants books with DS at age 7 and he just didn't get them (too American culturally... lots on American football and cheerleaders!) and beyond him words-wise, too. They describe adventures of 4th-grade characters which is age 9-10 in American schools, I don't think they would suit most boys below 8-9 yrs old, really.

Simple Books with large text written for young readers about vehicles were the first things DS read avidly. I can only find that sort of book in charity shops, nowadays.

After that he went for Simpsons comics and the "Boys Rule" series.

Oops, forgot the dyslexia thing in last post... I think it exists. How can teaching be to blame, unless you get whole classfuls of dyslexics?

I mean it's obvious to me, some children their brains just aren't wired up the same and they can't get their brains to coordinate spoken sound with the visual image of the letter.

I do hope you all read what Roisin said.

My DS1 is now 14. He loves and is a fluent reader. It wasn't always the case. I have heard that if boys stop reading between ages 7 and 11 you never switch them back on to books again. I don't know that I think it's about schools teaching them to read so much as the fact that good books for boys are hard to find.

Roisin and was it Tamum???????? started several threads about good books for children. DS1 was a brilliant reader and so as not to lose his enthusiasm (and I could see it happening) I made a conscious effort to talk to the people at the children's bookshop (we are fortunate to have one of the few specialist children's bookshops just up the road) and finding out what was good for boys to read. Sometimes I bought him football stories because he loves football. Those books didn't always do it because he wanted reading that stretched him (not that he could articulate that) and interested him. Books seem to be very female based. It is good that girls see that all is possible (I have 3 daughters) but boys need good stuff too.

Roisin... is it possible that you could find and link your old threads. There are so many good suggestions on it. Also... don't forget that reading doesn't have to be fiction. Non-fiction is good. Lots of boys tend to prefer it.

hth I have a 3 yo boy and am preparing myself for the time when I will have to keep finding new books to keep his interest.

For Frances5- you make several points Frances, all of them valid.

Research is still going on concerning dyslexia- it is being researched by the top professors at Oxford Uni etc etc.

Basically, it is due to an imbalance in the neurologcal make up of the brain - we have a right and left hemisphere and each controls different actions/thoughts. Dyslexics are often termed "right brainers" because they have higher functioning on the right side- which means that the left side- which controls language, speech and reading, is not so well developed.

Children can have problems with phonological processing if they have had glue ear at a crucial stage of language development, but that doesn't mean they are dyslexic. Some dyslexics have eye sight problems, as the muscles don't coordinate properly,but dyslexia is not an "eyesight" problem.

Dyslexia is essentially a problem with working memory, so that the sound and sight of letters are not retained.

The way that dyslexia is assessed- and you seem to be aware of this- is to look for a gap between a child's potential (their underlying ability or IQ) and their current performance (achievement). If lots of the sub-tests on the assessment pick up weaknesses in processing speed, working memory, poor auditory or visual discrimination, amongst other things. If no other reason can be found for a child's literacy problems, then dyslexia is usually diagnosed. For instance, Iknow of a child whose IQ was in the top 1% of the population, (IQ over 135) but was 3 years behind in reading and spelling for that level of ability. The effect on their self esteem was obvious, until they discovered they were in fact bright- but had a problem, which is actually classed as a disability at work and at university - where dyslexics are eligible for help.

Personally, I think it helps to have an assessment regardless of the cost as if nothing else it assures the child that they are "thick". It also gives professional dyslexia teachers a starting point, as they then know whether a child learns best through an auditory or visual or kinaesthetic route.

At school the teacher can and should use a whole class appraoch using a multi sensory method which will help all children to learn, dyslexic or not- that is the basis of the new synthetic phonics (which is actually how I was taught in the 1950s!), rather than the mix oflook and say, flash cards etc, which has been around for the past 20 years.

Whoops- my typos - should say it assures the child they are NOT thick!

Any seven year old who is having problems with school deserves extra help. All children need to learn to read however stupid or bright they are.

The Dyslexia Myth program made it clear that thick children respond equally well with intensive reading help as bright children.

www.channel4.com/news/microsites/D/dyslexia_myth/dyslexia.html

Why not just give the intensive help to all children who are behind at seven? I fail to see the point of diagnosing dyslexia before the intensive help has been tried.

There are things that parents can do if their child is struggling to help which aren't expensive.

www.dyslexics.org.uk/

www.promethean.fsnet.co.uk/

I think that there is an industry of people who make considerable sums of money out of the misery of reading problems.

Frances- synthetic phonics is supposed to be the answer- and even though the government have been advised by the Rose committee, they have yet to implement this method in schools even though they say they have!

The Channel 4 programme you refer to has been slated by other dyslexia professionals- Julian, who made the programme is not a dyslexia specialist, nor does he have recent knowledge of it. Some of his claims about dyslexia are out of date and show he is mis informed. There have been critical responses to his programme by eminent academics who have nothing to gain financially.

If you want to read other academics' opinions of the programme, I can show you where to find that info.

What that programme did was to give a very, very narrow perception of dyslexia- it didn't show anything about other problems dyslexics have, or talk about short term memory problems -or poor organisational skills, etc which last throughout life. It focused entirely on reading, as if that is all dyslexia is- it certainly isn't- it affects all kinds of behaviour and learning and people with it have to learn strategies to cope through life (not just to do with literacy).

Yes, a better method of teaching reading would help all children, but sadly that is not being done in schools- it is a scandal and more parents should be aware of this. However, there are children in the system who have been failed by current methods. They need 1:1 to catch up.

What do you mean by" people are making money out of dyslexia?" Are you saying you don't believe it exists?

I once taught a dyslexic boy who was fiercely bright (I think he ended up going to Oxford) but found writing and reading aloud very difficult. The errors he made in his work were very different from the 'not been taught' students - he made very distinctive spelling errors. I wrote a long covering letter for his English coursework file when sending it off for moderation explaining how his written work did very little justice to the quality of ideas and understanding he had shown over the two year GCSE course and they upheld the grade I'd given him. It makes me {angry] when people try to dismiss dyslexia as dyslexic students can be so so bright and quick in other areas of study but get put down because of their writing.

Agreed! As the parent of a dyslexic I am maybe biased, but I have been teaching, and advising parents for 30 years- 17 of those working with dyslexics both children and adults, and secondary English before that.

I think we are in danger of becoming cyncial about dyslexia, just as it is gaining acceptance. There was once a disbelief about it, then everyone said it was a middle class excuse for "dim children" - and we are in danger of going there again.

There are some companies who are making money out of it with unproven methods of remediation- I won't name them, but they are out there.

I think we all have to focus on the fact that dyslexia is a specific learning difficulty, rather than a general learning difficulty- there is a huge difference.

Dyslexia is for life- it isn't just about reading or writing. It affects co-ordination, memory, organisation, and so on.

My son wouldn't read at 7. I hassled the school to no avail.

Eventually I took him to a private ed psych.
He is in top 2% of population intelligence wise, but had dyslexia whcih masks this and vice versa. His spelling is still unbelievable.

If you are concerned have him tested.

The school had him positioned somewhere between bottom and lower middle of class.

I agree with Glyn, dyslexia definitely exists

I do believe that dyslexia exists. However I think the definition is too vague. It could be argued that children with low IQs have defective brains as well.

It might help the confidence of a bright child with reading problems to be told that they are "dyslexic", but would it damage a less able child with reading problems to be told that their IQ was in the bottom 10%?

I hate the concept of IQ. It takes into no account other forms of intelligence or social skills. Musical or sporting ablity or practical ablity is not measured well by an IQ test.

If a child has one to one tutoring then the tutor will get to know the child well and plan the lesson accordingly.

If you put "Cures for dyslexia" into your favourite search engine then links to lots of expensive miricle cures will appear. As well as curing dyslexia some of the cures claim to cure ADHD, dyspraxia, autism, asperagers, tourettes and everything else under the sun.

Desperate parents are vunerable people.

My ds will be 7 in Spetember is in Primary 2 (second your of formal schooling in Scoltand).

He is sitll struggling with his reading - in our view - but does fianlly seem to be showing signes of "getting" it.

He si not behind per se with his reading - hbut he does seeom to be doing most of his reading by purte meory and word shape and struggles with any blending - and therfore just makes wild geusess with any new word he comes acorss. However, as I say, he is now shwoing signs of trying to belnd new workds and asking about words he sees out and about - a major step forward.

Bboth dh and I are keen readers, so as you can imaigine, it is frustrating for us - and difficiult not to pass on that frsutration to him when we are doing reading practice with him (although we do try! )

We were aware last year that he just wasn't belnding. We raised it with the school and they said not to worry, as many kids 9especially boys) only "get" it once they are 6, and not to worry until then.

Having said that, early in the first term of P2, they did apporach us to say he was struggling in the group he was in for reading - he was in the top group for reading, as that is where he was inteligence wise. They gave him 6 weeks of intensive 1:1 tuition before agreeing with us that it was best for his confidence that he dropped to the next readfing group. it wasn't that he couldn't "read" the books (he has an amazing mempry and capacity for word recogntition) - it was just that he couldn't do the extra work around it - the writing of thier own wee stories/making up their own sentences. The problem that we have now encoutered is that he is effecvely between the two groups - not being stretched by the group he is now in, but defintely still no able to keep up with the other group.

BUT he is now starting to decode new words for himslef. Simple ones, (geg Kenwood - on my food processor) but it's a start! We're trying not to make too big a deal of it - but to encourage him every time he does so. Maybe the school was right after all - it is just something that clicks at a particular age.

We also had a breakthrough last weekend - he asked if I would buy him a couple of "Captain Underpants" books (which he had seen on a school visit to Waterstones). Of course I saud yes - and he has been trying to read them on his own! Yeayyyyyyy!

I don't know if that helps Rosie76 - expcet just to show that you are not alone!

Frances- what would you like to see as the current definition of dyslexia?

A child whose IQ is in the bottom 10% should not be told that - unless his parents and teachers want to completely demoralise him/her.

Of course, all children have talents, but IQ is a factor and to ignore it is unrealistic- it is ONE of the ways that dyslexia is diagnosed- children with learning difficulties have overall problems - not specific ones.

The benefit of an assessment is that it identifies strenghts NOT ONLY weaknesses.

Have you had a bad experience of some of this which makes you feel as you do? You seem to be very angry over something as if you have personally suffered in some way?

Yes, there are so-called miracle cures- but the best advice for any parent is to look at the BDA website, or consult a educational psycholgist for impartial advice.