What can I say at Parents' Evening tonight that will actually make a difference?

[marthamoo]

This might be long and a bit rambly so apologies in advance.

Ds1 is very bright (not G&T in the slightest, but he is bright). At home he has a number of interests - particularly history (mostly that of the 1st and 2nd world wars, it has to be said - but he knows loads), geography etc and he loves reading. I'm making him sound precocious and he's not - he'd rather play football than anything else, preferably in the garden or the park but the X-Box will do at a push.

He's also excrutiatingly, painfully shy. He's made a lot of progress - his first nursery thought he was autistic; I think he was selectively mute. He's in Year 5 now and he copes - but he 'disappears' at school - it's a physical thing, I see him hunch down and shrink as we get nearer in the morning. He isn't bullied - in fact he seems quite popular, which I find hard to grasp, to be honest, as he is so shy that it often comes across as unfriendliness.

He has drifted through school - I don't think he's made an impression on anyone. He's quiet, he gets on with it, he's "no bother". I had to go in and speak to his teacher the other week and he said "oh, he sits at the back of the classroom because I know I can rely on him to behave and just get on with it." His report this year was the worst he's ever had: average across the board. I think this shows the way he's learned to just do "enough" to get by. Homework is always a battle - he's disinclined to put anything more in than the bare minimum.

I suppose I'm feeling so disheartened at the moment because he only has another year of primary to go...is this going to be the same all through his academic life? Will he just drift through secondary too?

Does any of this make any sense? I'm not normally so downbeat on Mumsnet but I really could use some advice here...

I think you need to tell the teacher pretty much what you've posted on here, particularly the bit about the latest report. You're probably right, because he can be relied upon to be no trouble and never causes a fuss, the teacher may think he's fine. Try asking the teacher to single him out a bit for some praise, to build his confidence a bit, also mention you're worried he's switching off from school work and he's difficult to motivate and ask for some support. Does the class do any show and tell? Perhaps he could bring in something he enjoys and talk to the class. Don't worry about it being forever, children change all the time. Good luck.

Marthamoo
From my experience of two DSs, boys are generally minimalist in their attitude to work. I was always worried that DS1 could "drift" at school as he was very able and fairlyNow 20 and at university his attitude remains the same. He knows exactly how much work he needs to do in order to secure a good 2.1 and has no intention of doing any more than that.
I'd recommend that you follow Ali5's good advice on what to say at the parents' evening. If he is left just to "get on with it" it isn't surprising that his work is deteriorating.

What is it specifically that you are worried about and what would you like to be changed as a result of the meeting?

Wise words from lilymaid and ali5 there moo.
I think you have to politely challenge the teacher's apparent willingness to let a quiet, sensible child drift. Years 5 and 6 are so important for all children as they are starting (hopefully) a gradual, school-driven process of readying themselves for secondary transfer.
I've got a bright ds too - not sure if he is G & T but I am not bothered in the sense that he is loving school and clearly not drifting or bored. But he still manages to make three little homeworks a week seem like a Sisyphean task - boys really do have bare minimism down to an art don't they.
I did just want to say re shyness that there is a child in ds' class who sounds quite like yours on that front (ie, clams up with other adults, sets you wondering how he fares at playtime). IME just as children can be staggeringly cruel and bullying, so can they also be very generous and considerate. According to ds, X is either included in the games if he wants, or politely left to do his own thing. He is accepted for himself and still very much liked, so there you go.
For me what stands out from your post is how your ds is faring in class. He shouldn't be neglected

It might be an idea to drop the teacher a friendly note before hand letting him know what you want to talk about. I'm a teacher myself and unfortunatly we - or me anyway - don't always know as much as we'd like about the social side of their lives. It's also easy to get into a situation where you feel like you have to defend your position or cover up gaps in your knowledge of the child in a parent interview which is not really very helpful. If the teacher had some warning it would give him the opportunity to do some observations of your child during independant work in the classromm and maybe on the playground if that is an issue. It would give him the opportunity to give some specific thought to your child and help you both to have a useful conversation on parents evening. It is not too late at this point in year 5 to make some possible changes for your child if that is what is appropriate though I wouldn't worry too much. in my experience there are boys whose intelligence shines through though they don't do so well in tests. Our academic system is very narrow in assessing children's capabilities I think.

oh I know exactly what you mean! I have a year 5 DS too and sounds very similar to yours. We have just had a parents evening and I was told my DS, who loves school (always has), has lost his shine!!

his teacher told me at last parents evening that they was going to encourage him to shout more in class to compete with noisier children!! I told teacher it would never happen and it didnt so now his teacher is trying "picking on him, in a nice way" (teachers words) I agreed to see how it goes but said if DS isnt happy I will let her know.

When I ask my DS he says teacher is boring!

Repeatedly I am told he doesnt push himself and will choose an easy option if he can, Dont we all do this?

Personally I dont rate his teacher, who would rather sit and talk about DP with the children than teach them. Last year he had to inspirational teachers and he shone! This years teacher is repeatedly overheard saying things like "God i hate teaching maths" and "I am not in the mood to teach today"

Oh teacher has never heard him read (doesnt need to as knows DS is a good reader (teachers own words!!)

Sorry I've got carried away now. I was only going to share with you what I ask at parents evenings and that is

1. Hows he doing?
2. Any areas of concern
3. Any thing we need to work on?
4. He is happy in class? (This has made his present teacher think hard!)

Sorry for rant. HTH

Some really interesting stuff here. Thanks for all the replies.

I think I want the impossible. I want ds1 to shine: I want him to fulfil the potential I think he has. I want him to put his hand up if he knows the answer. I want him to be fired up with enthusiasm for learning (oh, OK, off into the realms of fantasy now...)

I don't expect his teacher (who has 30 other children to contend with as well) to do all that. Especially as I don't think I do that well at encouraging him and I only have him and his little brother to cope with. Nagging doesn't work; encouragement doesn't work; bribery works a bit...

Lilymaid - that's encouraging and disheartening all at the same time (though if ds1 ever gets a 2:1 I'll be fairly happy )

I think you're all right: I need to say what's been said here, without laying all the blame at the teacher's feet. Because it isn't all down to his teacher, clearly - a lot of it is ds1's personality and, try as I might as a person who was painfully shy myself as a child and knows what a waste of life it is, I can't change that.

But there has to be more to his education that letting him drift and letting him do the bare minimum. But I don't have the answer any more than his teacher seems to.

Fair point, Berrie - though parent/teacher interviews start at 3pm today so no time now. I did touch on these issues briefly when I talked to his teacher a few weeks ago - so he is a little forewarned.

Message withdrawn

Apparently he's very clever. In the top seven in his class, no less. The "average" across the board on his report referred to effort - he was only assessed in 3 areas (literacy, maths and science) and his results were "good". The teacher said he'll do absolutely fine maintaining the level of effort he's achieving at the moment - but if he actually put a bit of effort in...

He showed me some of the work he's done where it obviously grabbed his imagination and it was really good (writing legends, history, poetry etc.) He also showed me half a page of scribble that was all he had to show for 2.5 hours work

We talked about him sitting at the back (it's actually a table to the side - not like the back row of desks when I was at school) and he said he's loathe to move him to another table because the table he's on are the 'reliable' children - and they generally work well together. His other tables are for the more 'challenging' children - with the front two tables for the most challenging of all. He thinks moving ds1 to another table might actually have be detrimental.

He admitted it's frustrating - knowing that ds1 can produce work to a much higher standard than he does; and he says he does 'pick on' ds1 from time to time, just to shake him out of his sitting quietly and unnoticed comfort zone.

I had a big talk with ds1 (another one...) but I don't know how to galvanise him into raising his game. Or even if it really matters. He's not unhappy - other than the endless battles we have over homework.

I think it's the system that's at fault - rather than the teacher. There are some extremely disruptive children in his class, and a lot who need much more help than ds1 does. There are also 34 of them, which is not a great teacher/pupil ratio. And ds1 is happy to sit back and just 'cruise'.

Wanted to come back to something Marina said "I did just want to say re shyness that there is a child in ds' class who sounds quite like yours on that front (ie, clams up with other adults, sets you wondering how he fares at playtime). IME just as children can be staggeringly cruel and bullying, so can they also be very generous and considerate. According to ds, X is either included in the games if he wants, or politely left to do his own thing. He is accepted for himself and still very much liked, so there you go."

That is exactly ds1 and it is how things seem to have panned out. They do just seem to accept his 'oddness' and seeming standoffishness as "just how he is". There are times I want to shake him when a child he knows will flash him a smile and say "hi ds1!" and he looks at the floor and kind of grunts. It worried me that children who have not been with him since age 4 (when he was much worse) will not be so kind and that he will be eaten alive at secondary school. But might be a whole nother thread...

Anyway, sorry for the length of this - I'm almost thinking 'aloud', but it helps. I still don't hold out much hope that things will change - despite ds1's promises that he will "try his very best...all the time" now

Moo can you give him something very specific to do rather than a more general "do your best at all times" type approach? And with a tangible reward at the end of it? I don't think you sit there at that age thinking "Am I doing my best", because its not really clear what that means in any situation.

Can you set him a specific task on one aspect - like maybe doing his homework within a set time - and give him an actual reward at the end of it.

Yes, I was thinking of pursuing the bribery..ahem, sorry, reward route. I've said that if he completes all his homework this weekend, without moaning or spending an inordinate amount of time twiddling his pencil and sighing heavily and it's really his best work then he can have his heart's desire: a pair of proper football socks (I'm hoping football socks aren't too expensive). I think more bribery in the form of an afternoon of football in the park with his Dad might come into play at some point too.

Oh, it is moo, btw - I'm having a reaction to all the Daves.

Yes, rewards are the mainstay of my parenting. We got DD (the strophead from hell) into bed with no messing every night for 2 weeks running in return for a pair of ballet slippers (cost - under a fiver).

As the advert would say: "Cost of ballet slippers - £4.99. Cost of being able to sit down with a glass of wine every evening for 2 weeks without having to run up and down 2 flights of stairs with ever increasing threats to administer a smack bottom to an opinionated 3 year old: priceless".

Marthamoo I must admit I think I'd print out your post (well change it and print it out) and take it with you so you remember just exactly what to say .. and then say it

oops .. just caught up

have to say I always got coasting reports

and I've always coasted

didn't do me too much harm and it probably won't do DS much harm although I can appreciate its annoying for you

the thing is the stuff he loves and really tries hard at will probably be the areas he selects to study as he starts to be able to choose so the effort will follow because its a labour of love

I think he sounds like he's doing fine .. and I think you're being his mum .. not sure whether you really do need to worry .. as an outsider I'd say I wouldn't

I have a strophead from hell too anchovy - flouncing around starkers this morning because her uniform was too green and she wanted to go to a different school such a shame I had to leave and catch a train then and dh was left in charge
Moo, that is such a valid point. I worry quite a lot about X after 11 because wherever he goes he may struggle socially, too. And he's not even mine
Is it possible that your ds will make the transfer with others from his class, and therefore not be left with no-one he knows?
Anyway, I think that treats and bribery are an excellent way to motivate him to make some gradual changes to how he does things - and from the sound of things, the teacher is doing as good as job as possible in less than optimal circumstances.

Thanks, chaps Like your advert, anchovy . You're probably right, Twig - as I say, he's not unhappy and he doesn't hate school. Mind you, he doesn't love school either - I think he classes it as just something he has to do. I wasn't a cruiser, I was a people-pleasing girlie swot who always got glowing reports .

Marina - secondary school scares the pants off me, tbh. We haven't decided which one he is going to go to yet but the one I think we'll choose is a bit further than the other two options - and I think may attract fewer pupils from his school accordingly. He does have one friend who is going there though, so that will help. His best friend is going to the local independent school - not an option for us.

Oh, I'm just a worry head. It started with that little blue line in the test-stick window and I don't believe it ever goes away.

Which secondaries are you thinking of Marthamoo, T, H or F??

Didn't see your post before, jnm. T, I think. I'm hoping when we go to open days I might get an overwhelmingly good feeling about one...feel a bit despondent about it all, atm.

Don't think he'd get into F - we're not at any of the feeder primaries.

I know quite a few children at T, parents seem to be pretty happy with one notable exception. We use their facilities sometimes.

I know F is very sought after, I don't have any knowledge of H.

Purely on first impressions (and the length of the girls skirts)I wouldn't go for AH which is wierd becasue where I am the Catholic schools are sought after.

It must be so frustrating for you seeing your son not reaching his potential. What really excites him, is there any way of fostering that side.

Football. He lives, breathes, dreams football. He told me the other day he's going to play for Liverpool (sacrilege ).

No, I'm not keen on AH - though apparently the new head is the bees knees (he got it out of special measures in record time).

Should that be bee's knees, d'you think?

I do have to say mind, not visited F but it has a good reputation, both it and T are 100% better than any of my local state secondary schools. I'll be interested to hear what the outcomes of your visits are

I agree with Anchovy's advice about giving him very specific targets. Maybe a trip to Anfield (do Liverpool still play there?)as a reward!!!

Out of pure nosiness which primary is he at (you don't have to answer that if you don't want to.)

Is it one bee or several bees?