'carrying over' in maths problems

[summer111]

Can anyone tell me when primary school children are taught how to calculate using the carrying over method that I'm sure we all learned in school? My dd is in Year 5 and continues to do her calculations mentally. However, I've just started her in a weekend extra tuition class (pre 11 plus) and she came home having been taught to multiply 'old style'.
Hope I'm making myself clear!

sorry i dont know when or how or what (bit unclear), but i wil bump for you!

the maths courses that i have done in ds school, they dont get taught that method anymore.

I used to teach in primary school and mental methods were what the government wanted us to teach, not sure what happens in secondary school tho!

I think they do it in Y5 at the DSs' school. They certainly haven't done it yet (Y4) and when I told him how to do it that way he said his teacher had told them not to listen to their parents' method!

Why would you need to teach the carry over method - the new method is great!

mid way through year 5 where i teach
but to be honest
the methods we teach before that are easier to understand

also it is taught as a 'possible' method - they don;t ned to use it

my ds (year 4) has been allowed to use the column method ie carrying over this year, but only because he was seriously falling behind and I went in and said it was the only method he understood.
He has btw just received his school report which tells us that he is now achieving expected standard in numeracy.
If they had let him do it that way in the first place who knows where he would be now.
sorry rant over

but the thing is, they probably don't undersatand the carrying method but just remember it - if that makes any sense

the thing is he does understand it. Because he's not panicking about remembering number bonds etc. he relaxes more, and uses them (a little bit).
To be honest it was more of a confidence thing than ability, but it certainly has helped and shouldn't be dismissed just because it isn't the in thing

I know that the other method helps them to see what they are doing - but once they understand that, it is much quicker to use the carrying/borrowing method if you have paper. DS1 was so delighted to find out that a sum that took him 40 seconds with the 'counting up on the numberline' method only took him 15 seconds when he borrowed.

Still taught that at our seceondary school - in primary as far as I know, they dont say 'carry the 1' but make it clear that you are carrying or adding 10 (ie carrying 1 to the tens column)

that is the point....once they undersatnd what they are doing then carrying is fine
that is why it is taught later than it it used top be
I would not dream of teaching it to anyone who did not understand the earlier methods

just going to try to find a link to progression in calcualtion for you

read guidance paper on calculation

aimed at teachers but breaks down calculation methods beautifully in stages....
hth

aren't the govt about to ditch the methods they use in primary atm and go back to the old fashioned way of doing it? so I read in some newspaper anyhow. possibly based on our children rating appallingly compared to other countries on maths, unless you count private schools that don't use the newfangled methods. or perhaps I have been reading the torygraph too much lately

i had read that too, and gave a huge cheer at the same time.

Message withdrawn

no they are not about to ditch it at all
the new primary strategy comes into play in september but the methods are certainly not going out of the window......

bloss...off to look at your thread

Thanks for that link. I have to agree with some of the posters though. My dd is a bright child and understands the new method but I have to say, appears to take alot longer using it - especially when it comes to long division...I just think the old system is faster but maybe it's just because I'm in my comfort zone with it. Interestingly, the private schools in my area appear to still teach by the old method.

the 'old' method can be used without worry with children who understand the 'new' method.
Basically, the 'new' method helps pupils to understand what the are doing maths-wise so once they get it, the 'old' methiod represents the understanding
simply learning the old method by rote does nothing for their i=understanding of maths imo

Summer at our school the columns system for addition and subtraction is introduced in year 2. Which is great because I have no idea when it comes to the "new" maths! How do they add two four or five digit numbers without carrying???? Aaarrggh!

I think I'll ask her teacher about it at next parents evening.

Janinlondon, in answer to your question, you calculate this using a method called 'partitioning' or 'chunking'. Not so bad when you are adding or subtracting but gets a bit complicated (for me anyway) when it comes to multiplication and division of large numbers!

thanks for the link. I think it's real interesting this new method of learning maths although I'm not sure if I fully grasp the idea behind it. That's a problem isn't it that parents like me are stuck in the past and not really brought up to speed.

the idea is that they actually undertsand what they are doing rather than just kniowing they need to 'carry the one then add it on'!