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Grammar school - slough and south bucks consortiums

49 replies

user1469640582 · 30/07/2016 08:35

Hi all , I have just joined mumsnet and I hope I will find some more real life responses than the paper based information I am given.
My two daughters are 8 and 4 and we are in Osterley so out of catchment areas for the grammars . Tiffins is an option but I believe it is over pressured as it's the only grammar supporting this end. ( and it's a nightmare to get into.

We are considering moving to langley, iver , south bucks somewhere so we are in catchment but I wanted to know are they any local good schools if kids don't get into grammar ? Just so we have good contingency - we have seen a house in Farnham and this I think falls into both catchments but I may be wrong . And as older is going into Year 4 the time to think is now .

Please share your views?

OP posts:
AvonCallingBarksdale · 03/08/2016 13:15

Just on my way out but briefly I believe the general pass rate in our area is lower - 25-33% typically. It is the highest pass rate primary in the area but goes up and down - couple of years ago 75% then this current year 6 was much lower.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 03/08/2016 13:15

Will post more later.

CookieDoughKid · 03/08/2016 13:28

Thanks Avon!

Kennington · 03/08/2016 13:31

A friend does Richmond to Slough commute and it is 1.5 hours minimum.
Keep an eye on grammar intakes in bucks. There are a lot of private prep schools that filter into the grammars. Check the number of children who pass the 11 plus at the local primary. At our nearby school it was 2 last year.

SnoopDoggyDogg · 03/08/2016 13:37

I'm in South Bucks (near Beaconsfield/Gerrards Cross) and the school most go to if they don't pass 11+ is Beaconsfield mixed.
My friend's daughter goes to BPA and likes it or there's Chalfont which I don't think we are in catchment for. There's also Beechwood School on the Britwell. I drive through the Britwell Estate a lot and it's not rough like it used to be. Some of my daughter's friends live there and they're certainly not rough. I am though, I don't fit in round here Grin

Lemoncurd · 03/08/2016 15:55

From our primary in Maidenhead approx. 1/3 go to grammar each year. It seems most to Bucks, a few to Reading and a smaller number to Slough.
The north part of Maidenhead is in SWBGS catchment, one of ours goes there and a number of classmates got in that year, despite living out of catchment.
It should be possible to be in catchment for SWBGS as well as Furze Platt & Newlands (all excellent schools).
Lot of people commute into London from Maidenhead.

HPFA · 03/08/2016 16:03

This link gives the pass rate for each of the Bucks primary schools

www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11653219.11_PLUS__how_did_your_children_s_school_fare_in_the_exam_last_year_/

HPFA · 03/08/2016 16:21

In most of the Bucks secondary moderns between 20% and 30% of the cohort are high achievers.

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/2014/group.pl?qtype=LA&no=825&superview=sec

So we can guess that about 25% of the high achievers (Level 5 in SATS) in Bucks are in the secondary moderns.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 03/08/2016 18:35

That link is interesting - My DS took the 11+ in September 2014, which I think is what that table alludes to. I'd got my DS's school results wrong - it was slightly lower pass rate, but not by much. It's not superselective here - and the majority of state school primary pupils do sit the exam, whereas, I think in the private schools they have to opt in, which would explain a higher pass rate percentage, as presumably only those most likely to pass will take it. Same as when out of county children take it. There is a bit of eye brow raising because the out of county pupils are, again, probably ones who are more likely to pass as they're opting to take the exam, which can raise the pass rate base level. This can mean local kids missing out. However, I can see both sides - we're in county and DS passed v easily so out of county pupils weren't an issue for us. My nephews took an exam for a superselective out of their borough and passed. Fantastic school, but they travel over an hour to get to school Shock. DS has a 10 minute walk...

HPFA · 03/08/2016 19:41

For lovers of statistics here's some more:

www.buckscc.gov.uk/media/3963547/Grammar-school-allocation-by-location-Sept-16-Spring-update.pdf

They pretty well bear out what Avon above is saying, you'll see that the pass percentages for those sitting from outside Bucks are higher - it would make sense that you're not going to have your child sit the test unless you think they have a reasonable chance of passing.

BlackbirdSingsInTheDeadOfNight · 04/08/2016 09:39

We lived in Bucks until two years ago, when we moved away to a non selective county specifically because of the 11+. I went to one of the girls' grammars myself and it was a great school, but very results focused (as you'd expect) and a bit of an academic sausage machine tbh. I got on pretty well and enjoyed my time there, but I had friends who, although bright and could certainly keep up academically, hated every minute because it was a constantly very pressurised environment.

We moved away on purpose for my boys' education. DS2 is bright and would, I suspect, pass the 11+ and do well at one of the grammars. DS1, however, has various special needs and we wouldn't have even put him in for the exam. He would be expected to go to one of the colossal (2,000+ pupils) non selective schools. Virtually all of Bucks's non selective schools compare unfavourably with most comprehensives in other counties (Bucks is 100% selective so there are no comps). We were very uneasy with the idea of our two children getting completely different standards of education to one another.

So we moved. Do think carefully before making the move to Bucks, OP. The grammars are certainly extremely good but they're not right for every child, however bright the child is.

HPFA · 04/08/2016 14:41

Blackbird That is a very well-balanced and thoughtful contribution. We live in a fully comp area and luckily, my DD is well-suited to being at a great comp, she's turning out to be very talented in some subjects (history and languages) and somewhat ...umm...less talented in others (Science) so neither grammar or sec mod would have been right for her.

BlackbirdSingsInTheDeadOfNight · 04/08/2016 16:22

Thanks HPFA. There are definitely many good things about comps! Smile Great to hear that your daughter is doing so well and that her school meets her needs. My DSs are somewhat the same - extremely good at some subjects and less talented and somewhat less interested in others! Grin

Having left Bucks, we now over the border from Kent, which is a largely 11+ county. It's really interesting that, although out of county children clamour to get into the Kent grammars, there's also quite a few Kent children trying to get over the border in the other direction into the comprehensive system!

BlackbirdSingsInTheDeadOfNight · 04/08/2016 16:22

Sorry, that should say we now live over the border from Kent. Oops....

Bert2e · 04/08/2016 16:37

Unfortunatly the meer existance of grammar schools means that the non selective schools aren't great on the whole. As others have said Burnham children tend to head for Maidenhead if they don't pass as Burnham Park Academy has been terrible for as long as I can remember. Westgate in Cippenham is excellent but the catchment area is about 0.6m radius so you would be unlikley to get a place

Bert2e · 04/08/2016 16:39

Sorry posted too fast...
Beechwood isn't good for higher achievers eg v few students doing A levels in maths or science. Baylis is good for girls especially if they are into music. Otherwise you are looking at Beccy Seccy (mixed reviews) or Chalfont.

HPFA · 04/08/2016 20:29

Of course, if the planned grammar extension into Maidenhead goes ahead the people of Bucks will no longer be able to escape into the comps there since they will become de facto secondary moderns.

bojorojo · 05/08/2016 15:09

This is long - apologies. Yes, I am a Bucks resident. There is by no means a uniform pass rate accross the County. Aylesbury Vale has far fewer children reaching the pass mark. The last time I looked it was not at 20%. You cannot look at any school and think that 30% will pass. They may, but it could be 2% or 50%. Years ago I knew one school that reguarly had 75%. However, sitting next to clever children will not guarantee your's passes.

The Aylesbury Vale area grammar schools fill up from out of the County. In Chiltern and South Bucks the pass numbers in the schools is much higher - circa 30% or even higher. I think you have to look at the demographic of the neighbourhood to see what the likely pass numbers could be. How many uiversity educated parents live there and what jobs do they do? How much money do they have for tutoring? Poor children with poorly educated parents are at a serious disadvantage - sadly, in my view.. The statistics are also skewed against the state primaries due to those bright children who are in independent schools. For example, The Beacon school in Chesham Bois reguarly gets 30 into Dr Challoners Grammar - a whole class that are not in the state primary schools. That is only one independent school! The Gateway, Maltmans etc are all focussing on Bucks 11 plus.

Getting the old Level 5 by no means guarantees a grammar school place here. As the new assessments for KS2 are harder, it may be a score well above 100 will be good enough but that is not the only criteria for success at 11 plus! I cannot emphasise enough the need to read widely, have a good vocabulary, be good at maths, work quickly and accurately, read the question accurately and move on if a question is too too tough and takes forever to answer. In other words, exam technique. General knowledge and a quick brain are very useful attiributes. If a child is having to be pushed to get good marks at school, struggles at anything and needs drilling over and over to "get" concepts, then there may be a problem getting the Bucks 11 plus. The secondary moderns do have plenty of high achievers and actually plenty of them do better than many comprehensives, but you have to select the right ones! There is obviously a border zone around 121 where making judgements on what school is appropriate is difficult. Plenty of children do get in on appeal at 119 or 118 but frequently not to the most sought aftger grammars. Below that, it might be better to be top at secondary modern rather than struggle at a grammar. The good secondary moderns are very sought after so live in a catchment for one of them if the grammar does not work out. The Misbourne, John Colet, The Amersham School, Great Marlow and Chalfonts and Waddesdon are all capable of punching above their weight. Many families in Bucks do have a child in a secondary and a child in a grammar. It is quite normal where we live and no-one I knew ever moved to avoid that. I think it is different where the secondaries are not good. We opted for independent for both as we would have had one in each and decided it was not for us but we have the luxury of being able to afford that. Lots of people do private for the one who is not going to the grammar school.

Independent for boys at secondary level is a problem, except in Maidenhead or in the far North at Stowe, but Pipers Corner for girls near High Wycombe is popular. There are more private schools in the South of Bucks than in the central areas.

I do not envy you making a decision. If you are absolutely certain your children are really bright, and you are comparing them against other bright children, then you may find they are ok for the 11 plus. One of the biggest mistakes is to have children in a so-so primary school, find they are on the top table and believe that is 11 plus guaranteed, but in another school, that table would be mid division. It is very easy to under estimate how good children are in other schools that you simply do not know about!

bojorojo · 05/08/2016 15:20

HPFA - that article is just saying what most of us know. The PP funding is not closing the gap quickly enough. All Bucks 11-18 schools are academies. Some have been slated for not bringing in outside help when they need it. They are in academy chains, eg C of E or other MATs. Some have a history of being arrogant. Some will not buy services from the Bucks Learning Trust. Some do not review their progress/spending decisions effetively. They stand and fall as academies. Nearly every secondary modern in Bucks has been RI (or worse) more than once, with a few notable exceptions. Quality of leadership and teaching is often the biggest problem. It is far easier in many instances to work in a grammar school! Sir Michael Wilshaw is totally correct but Bucks has taken a huge amount of flak in the newspapers and howling from the grammar head teachers for taking money from the grammars to give to the secondary moderns for PP and closing the gap. The truth is: Bucks as a county shire is poor. it has never properly funded education and has always trumpeted the good results and been happy to let the bottom 30% have less than they need. However, money is not the only problem. It is a perennial problem of getting the right staff and keeping them by good support and working conditions - a leadership issue.

toomuchicecream · 05/08/2016 16:45

I've taught year 6 in Bucks for a number of years. Every single year there are children who quite plainly should be at grammar school (excelling in every way in lessons) who for some reason don't pass the 11+ and don't get in on appeal either. Every year there are also children who are quite plainly going to struggle at grammar school, but because they've been so intensively coached for so long, they get through.

Moving to Bucks (or Slough) for the grammar schools is a very high risk strategy. What would you do if your child was the one in their year who shocks everyone by not passing? Far, far better to move to North Maidenhead so you have the option of the Bucks grammar schools (if you're really that set on them) and Furze Platt/Newlands if not.

sandhya123 · 20/10/2016 21:51

Hi All , please share your views, kids experiences about Burnham Grammar School. I have to fill CAF form and really confused about Beaconsfield girls and Burnham Grammar. My kid has to travel from Langley.

Martuki · 11/01/2019 12:44

Hi everyone. I live in Windsor. Just deciding Grammar Options. Has anyone know about Upton Court and Burnham in Slough? I’m trying to know which one is better or any experiences. I have seen all the Grammar Schools and those ones are my favourites. My son will be doing the 11+ this year. Thank you!

Delectable · 03/04/2022 01:19

How did it go OP?
What did you all decide and how did it go?
We're also moving to Bucks although SW Herts is my preference. We're trying to find which areas of South Bucks has good speedy trains into London or set to have them soon. Maidenhead and Burnham would have been good but no grammars. Marlow is nice and has accessibility to a grammar but it takes ages to connect to Maidenhead and it seems one has to change at Slough to get into London. That's was the trains website shows whenever we do a Marlow to London search.
@Martuki which grammars can one get into from Windsor? Are they same as for Maidenhead and Burnham (These are the two I'm more interested in cos of transport into London)? Your comment is the first time I've heard of Upton Court. I see it's a grammar in Berkshire, not
Bucks. Is has an outstanding rating from 2008. Is it good? Burnham grammar seems to be a smaller school in comparison to other Bucks grammars and has a good from 2012. Which id you go for and are you happy with it?
@sandhya123 Langley is close to Burnham. Which did you go with and are you happy with it?
@OfstedAintEverything it seems like me, you were looking at grammars and cross rail links. These criteria are also important for us. Which areas have good crossrail access and grammar catchment please?

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