Muzzy Language Courses for Children

[Cyn]

Hello

Has anyone had any experience with the BBC Muzzy Language Courses? Does it work? are children interested? I would love to hear about your experience.
Thanks Cyn

I've bought the french vids for my ds (3 1/2). I have mixed feelings to be honest. There isn't a huge amount of information on how yo use the videos (ie when and how much, when to move on, what order IYKWIM). My ds goes through phases of loving them and wanting to watch over and over, and not wanting to know at all. He hasn't started speaking any french yet (although it is early days, we've only had them a few weeeks) but he has started being able to recognise french being spoken. ANd he is very young at the moment. HTH

ks - I'd love to hear more of your point of view, as a language teacher. Why are there plans to teach a foreign language in primary schools, and why do many other countries do this too? I was under the impression that it is easier to learn a second language pre-puberty...? I speak fluent German, learned through blood sweat and tears post-puberty, a degree, and living there for some time. Also speak a bit of several other languages. I would love to spare my children some of the effort I went through, but we're certainly not in a position to bring them up bilingually. Is there no hope?

I just have this idea that the younger the better? For example: My German is pretty good, as mentioned below, but I cannot do even simple Maths in German - I have to translate the numbers into English, then do the Maths (in my head), then translate the result back into German. I figure if you teach children numbers in different languages whilst they are still learning to count, etc., then surely this is better...? Sorry, it's late, and I'm not being very coherent. Would love to hear your views though.

Hi
I'm another languages teacher - did french and spanish at uni but have only ever taught french as there just isn't the demand for spanish in schools- it's chicken and egg - when I was head of department and in a position to bring in spanish if I chose to I didn't as I knew that I would have amazing difficulty finding teachers and would end up accepting ANYONE no matter how awful the were just to fill posts - and I wasn't prepared to do that. It is hard enough to find decent french staff - spanish and german are a joke !( and not a very funny one!!). SO they are taught less and less in schools - so there are less and less graduates - and so the cycle continues.
I think the idea of teaching primary french is mainly useful insofaras, if it is done well you might avoid the negative attitude to languages that can already be ingrained ( via parents) at 11. I learned french at primary school as a child and it made no difference to my subsequent progress - but then we only had one lesson a week and it was pretty unstructured - which I suspect is all we will get with this current push. To make any real difference it would need to be at least 3 times a week. I agree with ks that if you are serious about it then you also need to supplement whatever dd/ds does at school with visits to the country - and stay with natives - altho I realsie that is only possible for the lucky few who have friends there. We do have in France and Germany - and friends who have daughters the same age as my dd- and I have EVERY intention of exploiting them as far as possible!( and of course we can reciprocate!)

Language teachers - is it really possible to become fluent in a language as an adult? And what do you class as fluent? I've read that until the age of about 7, a child can cope quite easily with more than one language, merely flitting between them as though tuning a radio. After that, the brain starts to translate, albeit very quickly for some people and that true fluency is pretty much unobtainable.

All of this is pretty disheartening for me really, since I did French with the OU last year and have my own French tutor who is French. Interestingly, her English, whilst being exceptionally good is, not what I would call "fluent" in that she gets words wrong and makes grammatical errors.

I love learning language, and whilst not particularly gifted in them, I do really enjoy them. I think they are an intellectual discipline in themselves and, as such, think they are worth learning just for that reason.

However, on the few trips to Italy I've made, and with no more real knowledge than a phrase book, I have found Italian considerably easier (being a phonetic language) than French and wonder why that is not pushed more here.

ks - I know what you mean about there being no great demand for Italian. But, I suppose, with English being pretty much the lingua franca there is not real need for any of us to learn any other language (not that I agree with this!)

I just think that it might make language learning more enjoyable if you felt you could do it. I think what puts a lot of people off learning is the actual speaking, they just feel too embarassed or inhibited to really pronounce words as they should be. I went with some friends to Paris last year and most were too shy even to say 'merci' or 'bonjour', falling back on English because they know they can.

At least if the words didn't sound so 'odd' it might help. Mind you, I think you really have to give it a go in Italian so I guess I've just destroyed my own argument Finnish anyone?

Do agree about Italians being lovely though - my daughter got so much attention. And, like you would love to be able to immerse myself in a country for the summer hols just to get more language exposure. Am looking into term-time working and that is one of the reasons.

ks, don't beat yourself up too much about some language skills. There are two things you always do in your mother tongue: praying and mental arithmetic.

Going through the process of learning one language seem to lay a good basis for learning another one: at least it establishes the difference between a noun and a verb. Dh grew up bilingually but really has no clue on how grammar works.

I'm an Educational psychologist, with phd in second-language acquisition related topic, also bilingual (English/Welsh) so sorry if this gets a bit boring/bossy. By showing children foreign language videos/ CDs etc you are "getting their ear in" to the sounds of other languages again. Babies learn to distinguish between mother tongue sounds and others very early on, but as time goes on we find it hard to do this. A study in the U.S.A. studied 3 groups of Hindi learners, one group had only heard Hindi in the 1st 12m of life, the 2nd had heard Hindi until 10y, the 3rd had no previous exposure to the language. The 1st group achieved fluency more quickly and were nearer to native speaker level than the 3rd, group 2 far outstripped both. Apologies if this not 100% correct, but that's the gist. The videos etc could help in the long run, but re: fluency, after 11y ish you will not pass as a native, possibly why KS is so often frustrated in her attempts to use her languages!

Have to say I found KS views unusual for a language teacher, personally I have gained a lot from my foreign languages (Spanish, French, Italian, German and English!) and when DH was in hospital in Barcelona last week we would have been stuck if neither of us spoke Spanish. The consultant freely admitted he read English (for THe Lancet) but he couldn't write/ speak/ understand it spoken.

SORRY KS!! That'll teach me to read postings properly rather than skim! Very smug moments in BCN as several people assumed I was Argentinian (have picked up my godfather's pronunciation/vernacular)...

KS did you notice I posted (most of) the words to the 3 verses of Marianina a couple of weeks ago?

Go on, tell us your theory. I consider myself to have a very good memory for song lyrics but it is possibly because they were sung ad infinitum in our house by my dad when we were kids ( He is an excellent linguist by the way)

ks - I thought of putting my revision notes to music when I was doing my A levels for the same reason. Never did it mind!

I agree that you need a reason to learn though. I did Italian at night school for a year and remember precisely nothing from the course. But the tiny bits of Italian I remember are due to having to say things when I've been there.

Apparently, good mimics are usually good at languages. Well, that's the theory. I'm pretty good(ish) at impressions.....!

Aha! My sister is very good at languages and is an incredible mimic ( What a clever family I come from )