Does your school have a choir

[6beetrootsAmilking]

After watching 'The Choir' last night, was amazed that the school they chose did not have a choir or any history of one. Is this common?

I was thinking about this yesterday.
I went to a tiny secondary school with about 350 pupils, and we had 1.5 music teachers, (plus peripatetic individual instrumental teachers).

In the secondary where I work we have nearly 1000 children, and just 1 music teacher
(Oh and the drama teacher does 2 music lessons a week as well I think).

The poor old music teacher has 19 KS3 classes per week = 540 children to write reports for, mark homework, etc! He also teaches GCSE class in yr10 and yr11, most of which is done after-school.

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Wow. Vast gulf between private and state schools yet again. On the question of "inclusiveness" (strange term when we want excellence and some people are very clever or very sporty or very musical so obviously surely we want them to excel and we want to exclude those who are tone deaf from the best choirs......)The private schools usually have choirs open to anyone and then various other groups depending on ability which seems to work well. My ex husband seemed to manage the psychology of who gets in where reasonably well so no one feels put out. Children usually have a fair idea whether their voice is great and they should be in the best choir or whatever.

Aha Xenia. I was waiting for you...

I suppose innate musical ability will cross all classes. I imagine some of it is genetic so it's very unfair just like looks. Prettier people get better jobs. Slimmer people do too and those who are cleverer. Life is very unfair however much socialists try to make it otherwise... looking at the spot on my chin as I type....

I also think in private schools the teachers are expected to work harder and much longer hours, many evenings and often weekends - part of what the parents pay for, all those choirs after school, choir tours abroad, choir competitions etc. Having said that I was at a small private school without a choir which was a great shame as I like singing although it didn't stop me at university singing and we put ourselves in for singing exams.

smaller classes, more holidays !!

Sorry Xenia, but you're talking complete tripe (and I speak as a teacher who has worked in both private and state schools).

Sorry Xenia that is rubbish. Teachers in state and private work to the same type of contracts. Dh teaches (music vocal specialist) in the state sector, our dd goes to a private school.

Nothing to do with hours, hard work etc just priorities. State often prioritise SATS and are expected to c\ater to a larger number of children , hence one of his choirs is a mixed age mixed ability choir with children aged from 4-11 (nightmare). At dd's school there is singing club for pre-prep and prep and choir. They can also pay to bring in extra teachers and don't have to worry about cancelling everything at SATS time.

another of his schools has a fantastic singing tradition with lots of children doing exams, vocal groups etc etc. Just a matter of someone at the school with some clout and budget thinking that singing is of value for the students.

here we go again!!! was just thinking I had not seen xenias name for a while but she has been on the old private/state debate on this thread

I'm just speaking from the experience of mmy ex husband. His school working hours were to 6pm and I'm not sure that's true of primay schools in the state sector. Tell me if I'm wrong but several nights a week he'd have concerts etc and they had Saturday morning school too. I just thought the contracted hours in prep schools were longer than state schools. You're certainly right about not having to do SATS and I think he managed about 20 instrumental teachers who came in to teach.

Xenia, as I said in an earlier post - as a primary state school teacher, I taught a class full time, plus had the following additional music duties which were all done in lunchtimes or after school

Infant choir
Junior Choir
Year 6 choir
90 children having peripatetic lessons which all had to be timetabled and monitored
Co-ordinated 7 recorder groups
Taught 2 recorder groups
Organised yearly House music competition
Devised and directed Christmas production
Devised and organised summer and Easter concerts
Dealt with all music curriculum matters
Ordered, tidied and cleaned all school musical instruments

The list just goes on and on.

I really think you need to start re-thinking some of your ideas about private -vs- state education. Your assumptions are just simply inaccurate.

Re. contracted hours. It is possible that private schools' contracted hours during the week are longer. However, I don't think this has any bearing on the number of hours which is actually worked. I certainly work far longer hours in the state sector than I ever did in the private sector. Plus the fact that private schools generally have longer holidays, means that over the course of the year, the state school's working hours would be longer.

Little L that sounds hard work. One of my ex husband's issues was having to write a music report for every child. I think he was the only teacher in the school who taught every child to age 13 in every class. In the private sector the Director of Music would not have a class to teach on top of the class teaching of music etc.

On any test private prep school teachers' hours are longer and the quality of the music massively exceeds that of the state sector. Just go into the music departments of any of those schools to see. My ex husband has taught in both sectors so I do know what I'm talking about. It's that expectation that the children will stay longer, more parents prepared to pay for private lessons (and as important sit with practising children) and the children being in many such schools a lot cleverer which does help them with their music - there's a correlation. If your IQ is 80 you're not likely to pass grade 5 theory etc.

But obviously some private schools are useless at music and some state schools good but my point was overall there was a difference and I think the teachers are required by their contract to put in more hours. No buggering off at 3 or 4.

Good point about longer holidays. Private school music generally is better, but that may be the parental commitment to and enjoyment of classical music which can be a bit of a class issue in the UK and the funds parents have to spend on instruments and lessons. It also helps I think get the right ambience if there's a chapel which some private schools have and probably not that many state schools.

What complete rubbish Xenia. I don't know a single primary school teacher who "buggers off at 3 or 4".

You obviously have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You are showing your complete ignorance of the state system.

Xenia, where do you get it from. At dd's school parents don't have time to sit with their chidlren practising as we are all working every hour God sends to afford the fees. Our kids are being looked after by childcare assistants in the after school club.

Around Christmas time I hardly see dh what with all the Christmas concerts etc.

This whole thing has nothing to do with state or private. There are private schools with abysmal performing arts provision because there is an emphasis on sport or it is seen as not academic enough.

Just as there are some schools which value music/drama in the state sector and many who do not.

COme on - go to any mumsnet thread on private v state school and one of the things parents go on and on about is the better standard of music (and sports etc) in those private schools.

Absolutely, money... money for the parents to buy time to spend with their children to help with music practice (most mothers have to work through lack of choice), money to provide a home with practice facilities, money to pay for the lessons whether from the school or parent's pocket, money for the specialist music teachers. I think the raaw music talent is innate. My mother, my brother and I have perfect pitch (which can be a mixed blessing - very hard to transpose if you're singing etc and not necessarily an indicator of music talent but relevant here) and I think that's genetic but probably present in a lot of children too who would never know they have it because they don't learn music.