Declined a bursary because we earn too little!

[Gemima14]

I was just wondering how to tackle a private school that have declined a bursary on the basis they didn't want to put us under financial stress due to our limited assets and our financial outgoings and our income. I have heard of being declined because you earn too much or own too much but not this way around! Anyone else had this?

Apparently they don't offer 100% bursaries but I was wondering if I could ask them about my child going for a scholarship in year 7 and then topped off with a bursary? Or perhaps whether it would be cheeky to ask them what I would need to be earning in order to be in with a chance? I am currently self employed so my income isn't brilliant but I am in early stages of my business.

I don't really know how to handle these bursars. He has been very polite and we got the distinct impression on initial contact with the school that they would look favourably at us but now feel we have been cheated a bit as we have paid them a registration fee (which has been banked).
It was only this school we were interested in but I wonder now whether we should just find out if there are any schools that offer 100% bursaries or forget the whole thing?

Any help/advice would be really handy on how to progress this (or perhaps just leave it!).
Many thanks.

Please don't judge! We know the school as we are regularly there so didn't need to research. I did try to look at their accounts online but they were not available unlike other schools in the area. We were only ever interested in this school so we didn't think to research a local we already knew.

An ISI report is like an ofsted report but for independent schools and conducted by the indpendent schools inspectorate. It is a starting point for many when looking at their independent school options.

OK thanks. I have just looked the school up and there isn't a report on there for this school so that wouldn't have been much use!

If you are so hard up that you are now fretting about the registration fee, you should perhaps considered whether your financial situation could allow a private education for your child before paying it?

We were wondering about a bursary for secondary (quite a long way away) but had thought you had to earn extremely little for a large bursary and assumed we'd earn too much for that but too little to actually afford part fees/unifrom etc.

I@m curious as to what sort of figures qualify for bursaries in most places but aren't too much or too little... are we talking national average here?

We are not so hard up! I don't believe in giving money away that's all! I actually thought when we handed the form in that we would be rejected on the basis my husband earned too much. This wasn't what the thread was about, it was how to tackle the bursar. Most have made some really helpful comments on here, thank you everyone.

OK. Next time - decide what sort of school you're interested in, find 20 online and read their websites carefully, narrow it down to maybe ten. Read everything you can find about them: inspection reports, magazines, gossip, (just google their name) MN. (It doesn't matter if six of them are 100 miles away* - the important thing is comparison. If the school down the road doesn't compare favourably to all the others it isn't worth paying for.) Send for hard copies of prospectuses - see how prompt and efficient they are. If five are possible, perfect for your DD, well established and look as if they actually can make significant awards ring them up and arrange a visit. (You may or may not be able to do this without registering ...) Then take it from there.

You may or may not know that you stand a far better chance of a substantial award if you opt for boarding rather than day schools - provided you find the right one.

Futureme that is exactly where we are and we earn above national average. I am now thinking this is down to individual schools and their criteria. Please do all your research and speak with the bursar beforehand (like we should have done). We were given the impression that they want to give bursaries and to almost say we were impoverished by the registrar and then we still get rejected!

I thought businesses had to post their income and outgoings? I would be concerned if you didn't have access to this. If any business is failing, the last people they will want to know are the customers.

Independent schools are under more pressure these days to give bursaries to justify their charitable status.

Thank you Gruach - Not sure I could send her to boarding school although she would probably love it!

This wasn't what the thread was about, it was how to tackle the bursar.

Tackle him about what? You are beginning to sound like that prospective (and joyfully turned away) parent.

But, finally, you may find this thread helpful.

"I get the impression from the last email back from the bursar that there is something else going on and his hands are tied. I did suggest that I could top up my business income at the moment by doing other part-time work (as my husbands salary isn't bad at all) or I could go back to work as a project manager but that fell on deaf ears. So, despite all their promises of being more inclusive in the next 5 years I don't believe that they have much to give away at all. What is an ISI report?"
Maybe they've already allocated their bursary money to other children and your offer to increase your earnings is just coming too late.
ISI reports are not worth the paper they're written on and don't give any details of bursaries.
Boden independent schools are not under more pressure to give bursaries to maintain their charitable status, the charities commission ruled a few years ago that they don't have to give bursaries to stay charities. I suspect the charities commission realised that most independent schools can't afford to give large bursaries to all and sundry however much they might want too.
The problem is that schools all administer bursaries in different ways because very few are in the same situation when it comes to the amount of money they have available for bursaries. Large bursaries are available at boarding schools but even these are relatively few and far between because boarding fees are so expensive so you average boarding school has a limited number of bursary places for those wanting a massive reduction on 36K a year. As I said above if boarding is something you'd consider look at Christ's Hospital as you first port of call.

The only reason I recommended looking at the ISI report is because of its report on governance - which gives some idea of how efficiently the school is being run.

I agree that certainly there is a huge difference in what one school could offer compared with another. I would think that most schools would have a specific bursary pot from which they allocate money just for that purpose.

OP, how many children are there in a year at the school you wanted your dd to attend?

i think your right Boden most schools do have specific bursary pot I'm not sure if they are under obligation to declare how big it is, which would very interesting. The other problem is that amount must vary considerably as many are reliant on donations to fund bursaries.
Many years ago I was looking for a bursary for a child I was working with and got talking to the head of a charity who funded boarding school places for children from problematic families. He said that in their experience most schools will happily knock 30% off because they remaining 70% covers their running costs etc its when you meed more financial assistance than that that it starts to become problematic.
I'm aware ISI reports detail governance but they don't look into the schools accounts and tell you whether or not its financially viable. ISI reports are not worth the paper they're written on because they are a pack of lies, I learnt this when my DS was at prep primarily a box ticking exercise, the schools know exactly what the inspectors are looking for, so as long as the correct boxes are ticked by the inspectors then you'll get a glowing report.

Oh really? That's unfortunate. As I say I will never forget how awful it was when my dd's school closed. And how horrible it was in the last 2 weeks dropping our children off, knowing that the teachers weren't getting paid and the caters pulling out of providing food at lunchtime because they hadn't been paid! It had also been my school and the atmosphere of the meeting we had to go to when we were told about it - I've never experienced anything like it. People just assumed that because it been there for 80 years it would keep on going.

Not to mention that they still owe us £2k which we are highly unlikely to get back.

Nothing much to add to what's been said, except for regardless of what bursaries are available and whether you qualify on a means test, its never any guarantee you'll get one, so you do have to be prepared any application fee is a gamble.

Another thought, with you saying she's currently in y5 were you applying for a y6 place? Because if so might be worth double checking with the bursar re y7 entrance. Many independents offer their bursaries at usual entrance points, eg y7, y12 etc.

future depends on fees and what assets/ outgoings they take into account etc. Usual format is a sliding scale between qualifying for 100% to not being eligible for anything.

My very bright daughter has been accepted at a prestigious 11+ secondary school in Hatfield, we applied for a bursary award and was turned down. I am currently in a panic mode as I haven't made a contingency plan. the school is still holding her accepted place but I will have to find other means. I need help and suggestions of what to do........

This thread is from 2015, so you're unlikely to get many responses.

Best to start a new thread of your own.

Did you apply for a state place in the Autumn as a back up?

I think you should say that you restored in good faith after an initial conversation in which you described your financial circumstances. You feel that it was disingenuous to take a registration fee and then decline on the grounds that you are 'too poor' (ie very much in need of a bursary beyond the amount they can offer). I think they would probably return it.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow Well spotted. I hate it when people do that.

It’s harsh, @Gemima14 but the fundamental question the school is considering is how badly they want your DC and how much they are therefore willing to reduce their fees to secure her. It only really becomes about what you can afford once they have determined her value to the school. If you earned more you would be able to bridge a larger gap, and if your income is lower the child needs to be higher value to the school for them to take a larger share of the cost. There can be exceptions such as family connections which sometimes bear fruit; lots of schools look more kindly on old boys or old girls sending DC to their alma mater. If the bursar looks at your financial circumstances and concludes that you cannot afford the amount you would have to pay to meet the amount they would reduce to, the school will potentially withdraw their offer, as they want pupils for the duration, not either dropping out when the coffers run dry, or coming back for a greater discount.

I’m sure the school would be delighted to accept your bright and sporty DD. But they have to calculate how many other bright, sporty girls they will not be able to support financially if they give you a large discount, and if there are other comparable children who require less assistance they can offer bursaries to more families. The only way around this short of transforming your family finances is to apply to a school that would value your DD more highly, which generally means lowering expectations a little.

I used to imagine that when the admissions blurb describes their process as ‘needs blind’ this meant they would ensure a child who secured a place would be able to attend irrespective of family income. But in reality it doesn’t mean that, it means they make offers without checking who can afford what. It then becomes a very hard headed tussle between Registrar and Bursar to get maximum value out of their bursary provision.

Gemima14 can you elaborate please on what your household income is per annum (before tax) and your outgoings and what the school fees are?

Seems an extraordinary outcome. A friend of mine's nephew is on a 100% bursary to a co-ed public school and it includes school bus and uniform.

I totally understand your annoyance. I would point out to them that you paid your registration in good faith and it wasn't clear to you that 100% wasn't available as that is what you need. I would appeal to their 'better nature' for a refund.

8 year old zombie thread!