IS THERE ANY HELP SUITABLE FOR MY SON - MATHS!

[NatGeo]

Ive reached the end of my tether, I don't know what to do anymore.
DS 11 has always struggled with maths. He was fine up until towards end of year 3. He was in top sets for times tables (very good at memorising, learning by rote).Then a steady decline was noticed by his teacher in the last term of year 3, he just couldn't seem to get problem solving, we spent lots of time going through things with him at home, he would seem to understand it then but couldn't apply it at school.

By end of year 4 he was in bottom sets for Maths. We got him a tutor to teach him at weekend at home, going over everything they were doing in school to reinforce it, still his grades didn't improve.

By year 5 lots nothing hadn't changed. We got him learning support in school so there is close liaison between his extra tuition and his school maths teacher. DS would meet all the learning support targets but still wasn't improving generally with his maths learning. He has done loads of past exam papers just to keep him warm on all topic areas, fractions, division (long and short, percentages etc and he does well in assignments. All maths exams have been failed .

We have just completed year 6, and wary of ds forgetting everything again have arranged two lessons for him.

As of today, ds is unable to do the simplest fractions e.g 2/3 + 3/4, he cannot remember how to do long division, rusty on short, can't do percentages etc and is going into YR 7 in september.

His tutor is perplexed as are we, we don't understand why he cannot remember any of these things which he has done so many times.

He was seen by an Ed Psych back in year 4 who said he has no learning difficulty and was of average intelligence. But clearly there IS a problem with his memory. What can we do? has anyone experienced this?

Glad you saw it in the light it was meant and didn't take it as though I was trying to imply it was your fault for being supportive.
If screen time isn't something you already have battles over there's loads of apps, pc, game console versions of chess. And it's not difficult to learn basic play as an adult too, even if you were great at chess beating him in 5 moves wouldn't be fun, being a beginner adult evens it up more if he's not a regular player.

I'll learn basic play but no chance of beating DS , he is not a regular player but he is a top player at school, self taught, we just leave him to it usually.

DS2 is exactly the same. It doesn't stick. Just doesn't. And I'm sick of getting feedback from school asking him to revise it more. Poor sod did an extra half hour to an hour with his dad every single night and still only got 48%.

Some bright children are bad at maths. So what? They won't need it if they are humanities students. I got 4% in Yr 9 but scraped a B at GCSE. (Not sure how.) DS1's incredible English teacher also got 4% and resat to get a C at O level. She has a so what attitude to it - she is a brilliant, talented, fearless person who has written best selling books and scaled Everest and is the best teacher in the school. No one gives a hoot that she can't do fractions.

Time to forgive our DC for not being brilliant at everything. DS also goes to an independent school and of course they get frazzled and uptight about it because they care about their overall grades and position on the independent schools table, but I don't. So long as he aces the stuff he loves and is good at, who cares?

I wouldn't have this attitude if he were lazy and could do it if he tried, but he's diligent. It's a massive mental block. He just doesn't process that stuff. Our DC need to be told that's OK. They don't need to be screened by endless ed psychs for not being perfect specimens.

The big problem is you have to have GCSE math at c or above to go anywhere. DS1 was at boarding prep from yr 3 to yr 9 so only had tutoring in the early years and in the later years I'm not mad on tutoring as a general principle but I think it helped (assuming you can find someone with enough patience). The other thing is with math presentation is everything get one column out of line; disaster, his work used to look like a spider had crawled across the paper dragging an ink pen the tutor spent a lot of time just working on the habit of making it readable often class teachers don't have this sort of time apparently. Try paper with small boxes on it, looks like big graph paper. The other thing we found was give him money when they go out to shops etc (not a lot even slightly less than usual) DS1 was amazingly proficient at adding up how much he had and how much he wanted to spend from a very early age!!
My experience and friends in similar situations of both sectors is that the vast majority of schools are stuffed with couldn't care less teachers who make absolutely no effort to understand your child if he doesn't fit their individual box or ever bother to read any report sent round by SENCO's. In the independent sector they make grand promises then loose interest quickly when your DC doesn't make a miraculous improvement with minimal input from them in about two terms, the state sector generally doesn't even bother with the grand promises they refuse to do anything above and beyond the ordinary. Both blame the child for his failings (you wouldn't blame a disabled child for his inability to walk but processing problems etc are very misunderstood) and often look at you in various meeting asking what your going to do about it and then get all snotty when you talk about a private tutor.
My head aches from banging repeatedly against walls stuffed with ignorant couldn't care less teachers who I can only assume must be bloody stupid because I can read and understand DS1 ed psych report so I'm unable to understand why they can't, frankly I'm so relieved it's over [bitter smiley]. Good luck your going to need it.

I totally agree with lurked in that once the child starts believing they "can't" you've half lost the battle. Self belief counts for a lot

I nodded along to janetandroysdaughter - I fear that over focussing on the area of difficulty can serve to push to the edges the stuff the child is great at, and we should always stress that it's fine not to excel at everything. We have a running joke in this family about our non- existent artistic talents which means we can laugh at art homework tasks and exams and shrug our shoulders at the grades. We see the maths as something to work hard at, with a known goal and known hurdles to jump. But after that, who cares about quadratic equations and angles in a triangle? Keeping it in perspective helps to take the pressure off slightly.

It seems to me natgeo your immediate focus is on the CE and this is what is fuelling your concerns. Only you can decide how best to deal with that but if he is likely to get the right scores in all other subjects your prep head needs to open a dialogue with the senior school now to flag up this specific issue. The senior school may well be more flexible thsn you fear especially if there is only an issue with one subject.

I'm reading all your comments and noting them, all very constructive. Thank you.

DD1, awaiting her GCSE results, is like this.

We have never found a solution and just needed to regularly revisit all the basics, especially in the run up to exams. Even in y11 I was having to go over 4x-3, %s, fractions etc. However, to give you hope, over the years the refreshing got easier and she picked it up faster each time, and she was able to get a high B in her mock GCSE.

Teen good luck with the GCSE results! Hope you post back when they come out. This is all giving great encouragement, light at the end of the tunnel.

OP, have read your post, as you DS seems already had lots of help on learning math. I just want to remind you something. As in my country, we do tend to divide children into good at math, science etc and children good at literacy, arts, history etc. Some children will be good at both, but for most children, they are good at one side, then the other side is weak. We have a famous author, he failed his math exam at the University entry exam( I remember he got a zero), but his literacy was so good, he got into the top 1 University by special consideration. And he later become a famous author, and he is extremely good at foreign languages.

I saw you mentioned your DS is very good at creative wirting. Please don't forget to help him to develop the skill that he is good at.

Cloud2We certainly do encourage and support the areas in which he is strong, it's just that Maths is critical subject. DS can't really be pinned into a science box or arts box yet as he is keenly interested in science and good at it. My worry is that when he starts to do the 3 sciences then the problem with maths may rear its ugly head again. But will relax a little on the tutoring front, see how yr 7 goes, doing what other posters have said, not over thinking things and being over analytical.

Is he a visual spatial learner as opposed to auditory sequential learner? google teaching maths to visual spatial learners. Discovered my daughter is and knowing this has really helped her maths

files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ875427.pdf

If your child was in a state school and had done a Maths SATs paper and achieved 50-60%, that would be 4c/4b. That score would mean a state secondary school would be expected to target him for a C at GCSE. The things you have described him as forgetting would currently fall into level 5, hence above where he sounds to be. So while I would expect a child to use those skills at the point of being taught them, he may not yet have mastered them and be able to apply them in different contexts.
Ensure any tutor you use is working in line with the methodology the school uses and perhaps leave the tutoring for a while. Don't dismiss state schools either. They would certainly be targeting him to achieve at least a C though it does not sound as if he would qualify for additional maths support at this stage.

NatGeo I find it interesting how your DS's brain works. He has the logical skills and memory to be a very good player at chess but those high level thinking processes can't be applied with numbers. Why don't you try that algebra game app called Dragonbox to see what happens with that.

Sounds quite like my dyspraxic daughter. She learnt her tables instantly,ditto how to do column addition etc..Very good at picking up concepts but not so hot on applying and retaining. Her brain is like mine. It's funny as her brothers are good at maths but don't have the retention issue. Holding several concepts in her brain to work things out which she can do is an issue.

Dd is going into year 6 and done well at maths this year.Studying for the 11+ has helped.School weren't interested so we had to sort it out ourselves. Basically we've had to except that repeated repetition is key. With me it certainly worked. The things I repeated as a child have stuck.Ditto with dd.

We have the Schofield and Sims Mental Arithmetic book which are basically mini tests that cover everything. Basically we do one a week and sit and refresh the areas that she has forgot which are reducing. We do a few long multiplication,division,fractions and percentages a week. It's not onerous.It feels like we're stretching her brain.The more basics she is retaining the more she can hold at once to work out a problem which she is actually quite good at.

If it was me I'd make a list of the key areas and go over them weekly for as long as it takes. Area and perimeter is another one. Decimals,fractions,percentages,long multiplication,division etc. dd had to be bombarded with charts,grids and graphs for a while ( ie needed exposure and to get her head round the spatial set up)due to her dyspraxia but she is quite good at those too now.

Good luck.

Interesting Lily , my DD1 (see above) was also finally diagnosed with dyspraxia during year 11.

Interesting,they sound very alike. Well done to your dd.

I suspect I have undiagnosed dyspraxia too. I got o'level maths and become a primary teacher so don't let your dd be discouraged or your son op. I often had/have to go over concepts to refresh. It was just the same with learning to drive and a few other new skills. Once I get something imbedded though I'm pretty good as is dd.

To be frank having to refresh and repeat is better imvho than not being able to work things out. It's just the way it is,I object however to kids such as this being written off as not being good at maths. I was told by one of dd's previous teachers that dd was simply not good at maths and I had to except that. Err no thanks. A bit of repetition and refreshing has proved her completely wrong.She got an A in her last report for maths.

Summer ends- thanks for your suggestion. I'll look for it, haven't heard of Dragonbox.
Lots of interesting viewpoints, it feels good to at least know there are others like DS, and who went on to do well but with a lot hard work and encouragement. It can feel a bit of a lonely place when everyone is talking about,"top sets" and A*s. We've just got to cross the 13+ hurdle next.

natgeo I hear you re having to listen to others' "woes" about "only" getting A's etc! I'm the parent of two very average children academically. I excelled academically (Oxbridge) and I've on quiet occasions found it difficult to accept that my children will not follow that path.

However my approach has been to think that I'm not the parent of the high achievers, so it's none of my concern, and good for them and all but my job is to get the very best out of MY children as best I can. And do you know what, they will be fine. The older one is currently looking at RG universities, having found his feet after a disappointing set of GCSE's (being able to give up all those subjects that are loathed is a revelation!). The younger one will get perfectly decent GCSE results (maths excepting) and has a good idea what career to follow already.

If you want to give your son a boost, ask him to teach you chess! You might need to get some additional help on the quiet, but it would be really good for him to teach you something (just take it easy, and don't get frustrated if he does not explain things fully or clearly enough for you). Our DS (also SN) loved beating DH and I at both chess and Monopoly. He is still often frustrated by problems with short term memory and some maths - until he finds his own way of getting it. He went on to get a degree in a science subject. He finds that he has to learn differently from others for some things.

Not to bore everyone, but I'll give an update on this thread after the first term tests. By then we'd have had a chance to implement some of the good advice that's been given here, including dropping some of ds's Maths tutoring. I've found this thread very helpful, thank you all.

Nat My DD achieved her B for her maths GCSE. (No idea how good a B it was, as for some reason Maths is the only subject they don't give marks details for on the results sheet.). Keep plugging away.

UPDATE UPDATE

I am the OP of this thread and wanted to give an update on my DS to encourage anyone else who might be going through the same thing.

Can't believe how much time has gone by!. We continued encouraging him everytime he did a Maths test or just homework. We continued with the weekly extra Maths tuition but without any particular pressure, and gradually he started to make progress but never got beyond a C grade. Then he sat 13+ CE where he got a B . We stopped Maths tuition after 13+ CE.

DS by now was determined to pass Maths and demonstrate to everyone that he too could be good at Maths. He became quite friendly with the 2 brightest boys in his yr and i think this is what spurred him on. He spent hrs self teaching himself, watching Maths help videos and doing pass papers.

GCSE he got a 7 (TAG) in line with his GCSE mocks under proper exam conditions .
He didn't do Maths at A'Level. He is now at a top university studying Management. It has a high quantitative element and he is tackling it well.

Thanks to everyone again for your advice and support.

This is lovely to read. Thanks for the update OP and best of luck with everything.

You're welcome @londontimes & a happy Easter.